Well to the so-called VILLIANS of trading spouse i can honestly say i never watched the show befor. A co-worker told me i must watch it that the wowan on this show was a mean vegan so on and so-forth so i watched. I must say i don't know you Barbara and yes we only seen what they showed on the television show. All i want to comment on is If it is true i hope if it was true and thats how your personality really "WAS" you seen it and took it to heart and made changes i know you are not a bad mom becuse if you were your kids would have not ran to you and greeted you the way they did everyone raises thier kids diffrent me personally i believe on being firm with children and thats the way i was raised and i never had trouble with the law and i also have a awesome education and career i have 1 child and she is 5 years old and already in magnet school i am very proud can you tell. LOL'S AAND YOU KNOW WHAT you can tell your husband loves you and really adores you so if obviously you must have a wonderful relationship i wish you the best. I must admit after i seen the show i really was disgusted at the way i thought you behaved i really could not take it i was not a fan of yours so i went on the internet to look up hate mail for barbara and found this site. After reading your post i kept and open mind and here i am barbara you only live once and you know and your family knows how you are so that sall that matters so who cares what anyone else thinks. well god bless take care and i hope u did help your hubby with a new car
i still hate her guts ......and how come no one is willing to defend this evil women . I think with all the collective ill will towards her in the world right now she must be feeling some serious bad vibes . HAHAHAHAAHAHA.....good let her suffer i say
I also found this site while researching the TS show. I am a little suprised at the vicious, hateful comments directed at Barbara. I believe we should all feel very sorry for her. As a native/resident of Louisiana I must admit that I take a lot of this beautiful state and her people for granted...but Barbara made me look again. The Cajun culture is very old, it predates the California new age lifestyle. Food is very important in this part of the country and I am sure that is why they put these two moms together. Other than the dog smacking, the thing that bothered me the most was the way Babs treated the Loupe's guests. I'm sure the guests came early (as is the custom here) to help prepare the complicated intricate dishes that are tradtionally served in Louisiana. It is not considered rude to show up very early, in fact it gives you time to visit while cooking, takes some of the pressure off of the host and leaves more time to enjoy the food and the company. Entertaining here is very different than Martha Stewart, we boil crawfish in the backyard and dump them on tables covered with newspaper. Or cook a jambalaya in a cast iron pot over an open flame. Beer from the bottle and we don't trust people who "don't suck heads". Don't worry, that isn't a bad thing...it means suck the juice from the heads of the crawfish. Yep, we are very different, and I am sorry that Barbara didn't give us a chance.
Let he who is without reason cast the first stone.
And the second...
And the third....
And so on...
I can understand the frustration many people feel regarding Ms. Gates' appearance on Trading Spouses and there were some things about her behavior as shown that I found disturbing. However, I don't see what is served by meeting her with so much emotional violence.
Ms. Gates does seem like a rather closed person who went into her experience determined to be a teacher when she should have approached it as one approaches anything new--as a student. What she would have found had she been more loving and open was a culture that understands only too well the need to strike out as pioneers and risk liminalisation. What she would have found is a people who accept and encourage a higher degree of individualism than some other parts of the country. The limits and boundaries are pushed much further back to accomodate those differences while keeping time honored traditions alive. I hope she got some glimpse of that. Being a southerner myself, I'll say that we strongly believe everything is fixable and I hope she really does see the mutability of the human spirit that we almost take for granted down here and tries again. Sometimes two is a charm...sometimes three.
Bottom line is, maybe its time to stop being an exclamation point because it only seems to be attracting other exclamation points and offer up something that is more in the lovely curvy spirit of a question mark.
Goodness gracious me. Will you people please calm down. I think there has been enough harrassment. If you want to keep going with this barbaric behaviour do it somewhere else. Not here Barbaras put up with enough. Btw Luke my friend thinks ur hot as after seeing you on the show... she said for u to ring her
Barbara attends the church I went to when I lived in CA. She is a great person, who is very passionate about veganism. She has terrific kids and a sharp mind.
Those who "hate" her based on the TV show, or "send bad vibes" are the ones to feel sorry for. Trust me "vibe sender" -- you're only hurting yourself.
And to Louisiana Lady -- Knowing Barbara as I do (we are not close friends, but did speak a fair bit at church), she DID give Louisiana a chance. There was nothing on earth that I thought would make Barbara try alligator. I remember watching that scene and being so proud of her and sad for her at the same time.
I really hated the way she was portrayed. She is not (nor is any of us) a perfect woman -- but she is one who I would always be happy to call a friend. And I only wish that I could have been one of the friends who gave her a big hug and an understanding smile when all of this happened.
Also remember -- its NOT context -- its EDITING. Cut and splice editing. You cannot quote ANYTHING from this show, because you have no way of knowing if a sentance was completely fabricated from many sentences.
I have just viwed the show and I really do have some questions. This is my first time to actually make a pass word and be involved in a chat room. Point is your performance was enough to get me in here.
I do not think you are a horrible person and I guess nobody will know the truth behind how the editing made you come across, but I was more than shocked at a few things you did that completly went against all the "values" which you so forcfully express the entire episode.
I hope you understand the level of meanness that came out of you towards your daughter. She was so excited to see you when you returned and you said how shocked you were that she missed you. To me that was a large indication that in fact yes you do have some relatonship problems with your daughter. I understand that eight and eleven year olds have energy but come on you took every bit of joy out of them recieving there gifts by stealing back the control, by reminding them about your point system. Not to mention the hatfull way you spoke about your husband, and what he got, and how you would choose the location of the hot tub. Until yougot your money and you had to quickly dry your eyes. Just what so sternly you told your children not to do, or else..
I really could go on with this behavior I can not at all understand from a grown adult woman, but the point of this page is to please reflect on your self. You mentioned you don't need forgivness from anybody else, because you have forgivin yourself??? That could be a problem right there. It's NOT about you,it's who you could have hurt or made feel bad,not just in your show but in your everyday life.
I am not a genius but I can almost assure you that you will not have the control you do over your children and husband forever.
[cite] Lynn Cornish:[/cite]I read an article that said that the happiest people in the world are Mexicans followed by Puerto Ricans. That would be surprising to most Americans because these people have the least in material possessions. But when you have everything you need to be comfortable, and survival is no longer an issue, then where is the meaning to your life? It's a lot harder to find.
Having moved from mainland US to Hawaii, I think people in Hawaii are the happiest! Crime and unemployment are low. There are million dollar houses next to coffee shacks. When you go to a party or get together, everyone is dressed the same, so it is difficult to determine social status (so to speak). They don't even beep their car horns here and people will wave cars into traffic ahead of them!
It is interesting to see how many different cultures and religions coexist here. So far as I have seen, people are more open to differing views.
I've never been to Hawaii, Lava Rock, but I plan to soon. My husband and I turn 50 in three more years, so I figured a trip to Hawaii, our 50th state, would be fun. I like theme parties...can you tell?
anybody know if the Loupe family was affected by the hurricane or flood at all? need to surf the net and see what i can find about them...nice folks, hope they're ok...
well, a little net-work answered my own question:went to 'fans of reality tv' found a thread about it-they're ok-were on the edge of the 'cane, a lil damage, some power outage for a while, but unharmed...
and a fan on there mentioned Finland has just started a 'big brother' type reality show-with full frontal male nudity-so, Abbott men, if you think your experience on TS was bad, remember it could've been worse...for all of us...
OK, I'm a little late getting into this discussion. I was glad to read the post from someone who knows Barbara Gates personally (Guest). I did not like the character portrayed as Barb in the TS "swamp" episode. However, it will be difficult for Barb to defend herself whether due to editing or true personality, because of the high emotions this particular episode brought out in people. I wish more people who know Barbara Gates personally would speak out. To me, this would be a more accurate representation of her true personality than anything either the show or she has to say. More opinions from people who know her and are not involved with the show would present a more believable portrait of the real person Barb is or is not.
To Cass: Yup, it's a bit of a hoot to see so much hatred discussed on a Tao board! Thanks for the smile.
Regarding Houma, LA and the recent hurricanes, this is the one part of southern LA that emerged without major damage. Not to say they were not hurt by the storms but the damage there was nowhere near that of New Orleans, LA's southern parishes, South TX, or MS, and AL. It is a beautiful area and I encourage everyone to come visit and help get the economy going, whether you check out Houma, NO, or other places in the storms' paths. I have first hand knowledge here - most of my house is out in the Gulf of Mexico somewhere, thanks to Katrina.
Finally, to the Abbott Family.... I don't watch TS often, just happened to catch the Bayou episode. I haven't seen yours but will watch with open mind if I have the chance. However, you might be amused to know that I found this board while looking for further information on Barbara. While browsing through the information here, even among all the hateful posts, I have become interested in learning more about Tao and your lifestyle. So in a very wierd and wacky way, thanks to TS, this is a good thing.
[cite] MSrefugee:[/cite]
1... More opinions from people who know her and are not involved with the show would present a more believable portrait of the real person Barb is or is not.
2 ... I have become interested in learning more about Tao and your lifestyle. So in a very weird and wacky way, thanks to TS, this is a good thing.
Best Regards from a Refugee
Welcome Msrefugee,
1) Barb came by our house a few months ago for a few days visit. She came on a Sunday so joined in our Taoist meeting. Nothing like a Taoist meeting to 'dig down deep' into ourselves. I found her very likable, curious, flexible and strong. Just a very well balance and decent human being, as I find most are. So, yes, the editing can do a lot to convey an impression that is heavily biased in what ever direction the TV folks wish their story line to follow.
Initially we were bent our of shape by the somewhat distorted story they made out of our lives. Same goes for Barbara. That is because we never expected such 'creative' efforts by the TV editors to make the story go a certain way. We were naive. Now, if they had told us how creative they were going to be, I'm know my wife and kids would have vetoed our involvement from the start. Heck, they were reluctant from the start as it was.
So, obviously they are not inclined to give 'full disclosure', but hey, 'buyer beware'. Realizing the 'big picture', personally anyway, has made the whole experience a real plus as far as I'm concerned. But then I've always been up for an adventure! This brings me to your next point...
2) Your correct, it really was and is a "very weird and wacky good thing".
That vegan family on Trading Spouses! I hear ya! I don't know if I've ever hated anyone I don't know as much as I hated that vegan woman. I feel so sorry for her poor children.You know what's strange? How intense people get when they talk about the vegan lady from Trading Spouses. Also, it seems like everyone saw this one episode, even people who don't normally watch t.v. And last week they aired the show here in Australia - Trading Spouses came on.
Because make no mistake, there is an agenda. Which is what I think makes the vegan lady different, and so overwhelmingly disliked: at first it's like god, she's a righteous bitch, isn't she? but then, she's on a reality t.v. show and so you have to acknowledge the possibilty that she's being portrayed not as she actually is, but as Fox or whoever want her to be. But then you hear that letter she wrote Diana and realize that Fox just got really lucky with her. That there's no way even the best editor could have created this character. This is a real lady. And the lady is a bitch.
[cite] sharon bevin:[/cite]That vegan family on Trading Spouses! I hear ya! I don't know if I've ever hated anyone I don't know as much as I hated that vegan woman.
Hi Sharon,
Welcome, and thanks for your post. It exemplifies one of the difficulties we face in having this big brain of ours. We so easily believe in what we think to the exclusion of [chref=71]knowing, yet thinking we do not know[/chref]. Remember, you merely watched an episode on TV which aired a carefully edited and rearranged fraction of a filmed reality to heighten the drama - you were hoodwinked. Like so many of us these days, your response, is based on an interpretation (here TV) and thus mostly devoid of real personal experience. You 'hate' the idea; this intense emotion (hate) you feel exemplifies Buddha's observation that life is suffering. I can only say that throwing stones at others may feel good at the moment, but in the long run never elevates the pain. And, in my experience anyway, may actually increase it. [chref=23]That is why one follows the way[/chref].
personality dysfunction... lifes a bitch right barbara gates. was the 50K really worth it? You knew the cameras were rolling. I feel so sad for your kids, I can only imagine what they're going through and your poor husband, couldn't you be happy for him and his orchid, as soon as you knew you got the 20K you sarcastically asked reminded him how he wanted a car, like that wasn't noticeable. He looks tired, umm maybe of you. Give your family a break. It was a few weeks of your life but take heed, it's a reality show, maybe intended for you to look in the mirror, it's still time to change and allow your family to be a happy one. It doesn't really matter how the rest of the world feels, hopefully in 10 yrs we will all forget about you. We can all be mean, but people who are mean to animals and children... and on tv, well nothing can sugarcoat that. You probably realise now how lucky you are to have a husband and kids that still love you despite all this... Barbs, it's called 'unconditional' love. Hope you give them that and more. Hope you realise the pain you caused the 'Loupe' family. ZZ was a wonderful kid and it's good you realised that. I hope you have the heart to call him and apologise for the horrible way you treated him, on the other hand, don't call him it may be traumatising to hear from you again. Atleast write a 'nice' letter to Diana. The letter thing was nasty, it just meant that you left that house still resenting that poor boy zz. He's an angel you know, you could have learned a lot from that boy and especially Diego. Maybe now you see it? They were good people and you should've enjoyed more of your time with them. But judging people for the way they look only proved that you were insecure about yourself, beautiful people intimidate you... but maybe now you see. Hope you learn, I have learned from your experience and I hope that you can only be a better person because of it.
Good luck
Hi Carl, I'll be watching your family TS episode tonight. Look, I'm not going to judge a family if they're different, what I notice with most of the postings concerning you and your family is that you're a great dad, maybe over protective but at the end of the day it's all looooove. I know they may have edited a lot of stuff that may have betrayed you differently but you have to understand, barbara was mean and no editing could have changed how she was. It's not that we hate her, I'm sure people will agree, we hate how she treated everyone outside her world, including her own family. You love your children, you wouldn't have wanted her to come and stay at your house and treat your kids the way she treated Zz? Maybe Diego could've said something but the man was trying to respect her, even til the last evening, he looked at her (and did you notice how she looked, she knew then she went too far and yet she still bloody justified it), her heart couldn't feel any compassion even when she obviously can hear him cry. Where's the mother instinct there for compassion. She could've apologised and hugged him, no wonder Zz looked untouched when she was stroking his face and telling him that she's going to miss him. Children tell the truth in so many ways and he knew she didn't mean anything she said. Your fired! comes to mind.
I guess you defend barbara as a victim to the media & editing, sure it's not good to judge people but you can't possibly justify her and the way she treated the Loupe family. I hope never to scoop that low or to be so prideful or self centred. Again, hope she learns from it, I have. Good luck Barbara.
In any case, thanks Carl, I hear ya and am looking forward to the show tonight.
[cite] sharon bevin:[/cite]Hi Carl, I'll be watching your family TS episode tonight.
(1)... is that you're a great dad, maybe over protective but at the end of the day it's all looooove.
(2)...She could've apologized and hugged him, no wonder Zz looked untouched when she was stroking his face and telling him that she's going to miss him. ...
(3)...I guess you defend barbara as a victim to the media & editing,
Hi Sharon,
(1) Well, after you see our families' second episode you may hate me too, especially if you believe what 'your lying eyes and ears tell you'... The part about being overprotective is especially ironic in that most who know me would say the exact opposite - feeling I should be more protective.
(2) Your comment here conveys to me how the show 'manipulated' your emotions. The editing is done to do just that, not only in actual fiction movies, but 'reality' one as well. And, for that matter, probably all presentations. Presentation of anything by anyone always has the agenda of the presenter involved. There is no such thing as neutral. [chref=2]Therefore the sage keeps to the deed that consists in taking no action and practices the teaching that uses no words.[/chref]
(3) I am really a rather ruthless sob, as many others may attest. So, I'm not actually defending Barbara, as I'm trying to pass along my observations. That is really all I do on this site (mostly anyway). Barbara actually visited us and attended our Sunday Taoist meeting. Spending the day with her, challenging and probing her 'mind set' as I'm given to do, I'm all the more certain of the extent the show was edited. Mind you, she is a strong woman. They use clips of that personality juxtaposed with clips of the other 'actors' to make the story. Of course, the story is believable by everyone, because it is essentially an exaggerated version everyone's story, i.e., we all want our way - what we desire. Our rights and our beliefs are the bunkers in which we dwell as we battle our way through life. A good dramatic story, convincingly edited, tunes right into our own 'baggage'.
It is all kind of ironic in a way. What we see is a reflection of who we are. At least that's how I've come to see it. Which is a reflection of who I am. What does this mean? [chref=56]This is known as mysterious sameness[/chref], I suppose.
So, enjoy the show Sharon. Certainly you will enjoy it more if you ignore everything I'm saying. When we were first contacted by Fox to be on Trading Spouses we began watching it, and really enjoyed it - we believed the show was showing it like it was. After we saw how creative they were with our reality, the show wasn't fun to watch anymore. For example, we are driving back from the airport with Vicki and she asked us if we have TV and coffee. You hear us say "no". CLICK Here for the true picture. So you see, as reality, such a show offers interesting insights into family life. But, if it is manipulated heavily to make in 'interesting', it looses the one thing that made it interesting to watch - at least for me.
By the way, where about in Australia are you? I emigrated there in 1963, spent time in Perth and up at Canarvan before wandering off to Asia. I loved it!
I watched TS and found your family very interesting. I enjoyed the show. I learned a lot about Tao, it may seem weird to people (walking around barefoot and all...) but I understand why and I think it's great to see people really connect with mother earth, nature and their spiritual self/mind. After watching the show I don't think you've brained washed your kids, most kids make their own independant choices at the age of 15 (even younger) and your sons seem very devoted, loyal and respectful young men. I didn't like the new mom's constant cursing... that was so annoying. Your wife really loves you all, soft soul she is.
In regards to Barbara... mysterious sameness.... I definately didn't see a reflection of who I was in her... hell no! But this much is true, she represented people who I have crossed paths with that were mean to me, in the same way - that is the only thing that I can make a connection with and I suppose the very reason why she bothered me.
She didn't seem like a strong women to me but maybe the TS experience has changed her into one which is great... turning a negative experience into a positive one.
I look forward to the second episode. As long as you're not mistreating children or animals, going against what you believe in - Tao or leaving negative letters about your child and parenting then I'll be fine.
G'day to you, Sharon from Sydney. Thanks for your kind thoughts.
[cite] sharon bevin:[/cite]... But this much is true, she represented people who I have crossed paths with that were mean to me, in the same way - that is the only thing that I can make a connection with and I suppose the very reason why she bothered me.
... This is part of what I was getting at. The show touched a sensitive nerve in you. Emotions tend to amplify perceptions. Thus, you naturally feel the way you do about Barbara, as the edited TV show portrayed her. Sure, there is an element of truth in the show, but the clever editing greatly exaggerated that element to the point of fiction.
The same kind of think happened in our show. Some folks were very upset with my 'brain washing' my kids. Of course, the reality was just opposite. True, I did raise them from birth in a Taoist way. But, that boils down to just the opposite of what you might think 'brain washing' entails, e.g., [chref=17]the best of all 'parents' is but a shadowy presence to his subjects[/chref] (in the sense of just letting them be themselves).
That 'brain washing' was a projection of Vicki. She just could not understand where we were coming from. Anyway, people who got upset with my 'brain washing' seem, by and large, incapable of 'giving us the benefit of the doubt' - even when confronted with the evidence that son Luke detailed. Anyway, maybe food for thought.
maybe i can tie in my recent situation with this...the boy ive raised as my own for 6 years was taken away by social services-since then we've been allowed no contact with each other, and ive had just one conversation with anyone in social services, and another with his grandparents...
everything they think they know about our relationship is coming from their own preconceived notions and minisucule knowledge of our homelife...they're basing what they think on interviews with a traumatized (from losing his family) boy who at best is nervous in such situations...on their own beliefs and morals...on the answers of a stammering inarticulate boy & i know the kinds of leading questions they ask...and the grandparents are ashamed because they werent there for this boy more in his life, his biological family was a bunch of jerks and losers and a stranger became the best parent their grandson ever had...
so they look at the bits and pieces (our casual ideas about nudity, cussing, speaking our mind), our strange habits & hobbies (barefooting, martial arts, eastern religions), that im 40 year old man with a 12 yo boy (for 6 years! but they dont see that, anymore than they see how the abbott boys are well adjusted after a lifetime with carl)...they believe what the media broadcasts, and are too busy or lazy to dig into the real facts...
what im getting at is alot of people are making alot of assumptions based on a very edited twisted version of the facts...such is tv as in life...
there are times in my life with the boy when i could have come across as evil as barbara gates did, and time i could have come across as mother theresa...guess which looks better, on paper and on tv...
That was a painful post for me to read, Buddy. I do hope that you find a peace that passes all understanding, and the boy understands all the pieces that pass through his chaotic world.
Hi Carl,
I watched the second episode and enjoyed it. I didn't come out of it feeling bitter or irritated like I did when I watched Barbara. I felt that it was a good experience for both families. As bad as the world can be, it still is a beautiful world out there. I hope you travel the world again, it'll be good for the soul.
Cheers mate! All the best,
Sharon
[cite] sharon bevin:[/cite]I hope you travel the world again, it'll be good for the soul.
Hi Sharon,
Well, I'm happy you didn't come away from our show feeling irritated! Truly though, I am much better at irritating people in person.
RE: "good for the soul". It sounds to me like Fox's TV editors hoodwinked you a bit on our show as well. Traveling anywhere is actually a symptom of a "soul" lacking [chref=33]contentment[/chref]. For example, at the most mundane level, I'll sit here as long as I'm content doing so. When I cease feeling content, I'll move on to something and somewhere else (like the toilet maybe) nudged along by another need (I drank a big pot of tea awhile ago :roll: ). The same principle holds true for larger scale circumstances as well, e.g., [chref=80]will be content in their abode, and happy in the way they live. [/chref].
The 'virtue' of travel has become a big part of the modern cultural myth. Like the 'virtue' of sending your kids off to preschool, it is a rationalization to justify a poverty of spirit (i.e., discontentment) that ironically tends to follow the accumulation of wealth. When all is said and done, [chref=46]there is no disaster greater than not being content[/chref]. We just can't have our cake and eat it too. Nuts!
You're not irritating and no one hookwinked me. You're funny and if you were in my neighbourhood I would have definitely enjoyed your company. Everyone's different, interesting. You have a wicked sense of humour. Travel may not be for you but I love it and my life changes for the better because of it.
Good luck mate.
[cite] sharon bevin:[/cite]Travel may not be for you but...
Don't forget, I spent 15 years+ traveling and working abroad. (all the continents, through 100+ countries I reckon, though never counted them up). The 'novelty' wore off! :roll:
[cite] sharon bevin:[/cite] I would have definitely enjoyed your company... Good luck mate.
Yes, we would have some lively interaction! Maybe it is a good thing you are on the other side of the planet. I'm getting to be an old man now and might not be able to take it.
you're not a vegan, though i find most act as you do.
you're not my better, you're not superior.
and the editing job you claim made you look so awful... come on no matter the amount of editing it can't give you something you lack and that is a show of character.
you're insulting, immature, bigoted (yes you are) and ... disgrace.
it's sad to know most are like you are.
i'm glad i'm a vegetarian, least i know my place in the world.
I fully understand how the editors could have completely misrepresented you on national television and I know how painful that would have been... if it were true. I'm sure there's some truth to the statement -- maybe there were things we didn't see. I know you won't respond but all of your responses and open letters that I've encountered since I've seen this show tonight appear to only distract from the issue at hand: the things we did see.
1. You, the self-righteous, self-proclaimed protector of all animals (except reptiles, which are "not animals") physically abused a dog for everyone to see and used negative reinforcement as your perspective on behavior modification. Was that a computer animation? I didn't know Fox could afford those kinds of special effects!
2. You espouse the natural value for soy and vegetable products. You talk about how garden-burgers actually prevent cancer. I can't say whether that is true or not, but I find it amusing that you smoke. Was that a "fitting in" in LA thing too, or is that a regular occurrence? Do you smoke in the car? I hope you don't throw cigarette butts out the window.
3. You drank cheap beer. Am I being classist (as you were when you called everyone in LA behind the curve, compared to the enlightened Californians)? No. If you were a serious vegan, you would probably know that most beer products are prepared with fish oil/extract in the fermentation and processing plants. Study up.
4. But then, who am I kidding? You ate alligator. Since when do you really care about being a strict vegan? You compromised your morals pretty quickly, huh? Yes, only the cute animals count. That's right. Everyone self-important Californian would know that! Beauty is what counts, right?
5. And as a matter of fact, I pity the fact that you aren't beautiful. At least not on the inside! You have to make up for that with wildly inflated boasts about your intelligence.
I actually have more I want to say, but I am going to stop. I am looking at this post realizing how awful I sound... look what you've turned me into! I'm usually a very nice person. I even live in California so of course I'm nice, and smart, and beautiful! Ugh, I can't stop.
I used to live in DC and animal activists would setup a van on the corner near my house with televisions built into the side of it. They would loop video of animals being fattened, slaughtered, and abused. Yes it was terrible. Of course it was terrible! Was it appropriate for public display? No. Did I resent this video, no more decent than pornography, being shown to random children and passerby? Yes. Please consider your tact.
Look, regarding your innocence, I think that is what irritates me the most. So I will close with this... it is not what we didn't see, it is what we did see: you hit the dog, you put down everyone in LA, you were wicked to the children, and you were a hypocritical shove-it-down-their-throats preacher. These things did not require fancy editing. You said them, you did them, and the proof is in the production.
If I had to choose between your posts which could be 100% fabrications and a half-truth from Fox TV, I choose Fox.
Thank you everyone for allowing me to vent. I have never been so disturbed and angry by anything that I have seen on television in my entire life.
And to all of you "look, this person is too weak to create an account and is hiding behind a 'guest' name" people. There's no point in writing to me however. You either agree or disagree and either way, neither of us will change our opinions on a topic that makes people so emotional. I welcome the discourse regardless however.
PS: Carl, I am watching you next. I half expect you to feed illegal narcotics to 2 year olds or kill homeless people. You seem to identify with Barbaric so I guess I am expecting the worst.
Comments
Let he who is without reason cast the first stone.
And the second...
And the third....
And so on...
I can understand the frustration many people feel regarding Ms. Gates' appearance on Trading Spouses and there were some things about her behavior as shown that I found disturbing. However, I don't see what is served by meeting her with so much emotional violence.
Ms. Gates does seem like a rather closed person who went into her experience determined to be a teacher when she should have approached it as one approaches anything new--as a student. What she would have found had she been more loving and open was a culture that understands only too well the need to strike out as pioneers and risk liminalisation. What she would have found is a people who accept and encourage a higher degree of individualism than some other parts of the country. The limits and boundaries are pushed much further back to accomodate those differences while keeping time honored traditions alive. I hope she got some glimpse of that. Being a southerner myself, I'll say that we strongly believe everything is fixable and I hope she really does see the mutability of the human spirit that we almost take for granted down here and tries again. Sometimes two is a charm...sometimes three.
Bottom line is, maybe its time to stop being an exclamation point because it only seems to be attracting other exclamation points and offer up something that is more in the lovely curvy spirit of a question mark.
Those who "hate" her based on the TV show, or "send bad vibes" are the ones to feel sorry for. Trust me "vibe sender" -- you're only hurting yourself.
And to Louisiana Lady -- Knowing Barbara as I do (we are not close friends, but did speak a fair bit at church), she DID give Louisiana a chance. There was nothing on earth that I thought would make Barbara try alligator. I remember watching that scene and being so proud of her and sad for her at the same time.
I really hated the way she was portrayed. She is not (nor is any of us) a perfect woman -- but she is one who I would always be happy to call a friend. And I only wish that I could have been one of the friends who gave her a big hug and an understanding smile when all of this happened.
Also remember -- its NOT context -- its EDITING. Cut and splice editing. You cannot quote ANYTHING from this show, because you have no way of knowing if a sentance was completely fabricated from many sentences.
Peace be with you Barbara. (Lisa in CO)
I have just viwed the show and I really do have some questions. This is my first time to actually make a pass word and be involved in a chat room. Point is your performance was enough to get me in here.
I do not think you are a horrible person and I guess nobody will know the truth behind how the editing made you come across, but I was more than shocked at a few things you did that completly went against all the "values" which you so forcfully express the entire episode.
I hope you understand the level of meanness that came out of you towards your daughter. She was so excited to see you when you returned and you said how shocked you were that she missed you. To me that was a large indication that in fact yes you do have some relatonship problems with your daughter. I understand that eight and eleven year olds have energy but come on you took every bit of joy out of them recieving there gifts by stealing back the control, by reminding them about your point system. Not to mention the hatfull way you spoke about your husband, and what he got, and how you would choose the location of the hot tub. Until yougot your money and you had to quickly dry your eyes. Just what so sternly you told your children not to do, or else..
I really could go on with this behavior I can not at all understand from a grown adult woman, but the point of this page is to please reflect on your self. You mentioned you don't need forgivness from anybody else, because you have forgivin yourself??? That could be a problem right there. It's NOT about you,it's who you could have hurt or made feel bad,not just in your show but in your everyday life.
I am not a genius but I can almost assure you that you will not have the control you do over your children and husband forever.
Having moved from mainland US to Hawaii, I think people in Hawaii are the happiest! Crime and unemployment are low. There are million dollar houses next to coffee shacks. When you go to a party or get together, everyone is dressed the same, so it is difficult to determine social status (so to speak). They don't even beep their car horns here and people will wave cars into traffic ahead of them!
It is interesting to see how many different cultures and religions coexist here. So far as I have seen, people are more open to differing views.
and a fan on there mentioned Finland has just started a 'big brother' type reality show-with full frontal male nudity-so, Abbott men, if you think your experience on TS was bad, remember it could've been worse...for all of us...
To Cass: Yup, it's a bit of a hoot to see so much hatred discussed on a Tao board! Thanks for the smile.
Regarding Houma, LA and the recent hurricanes, this is the one part of southern LA that emerged without major damage. Not to say they were not hurt by the storms but the damage there was nowhere near that of New Orleans, LA's southern parishes, South TX, or MS, and AL. It is a beautiful area and I encourage everyone to come visit and help get the economy going, whether you check out Houma, NO, or other places in the storms' paths. I have first hand knowledge here - most of my house is out in the Gulf of Mexico somewhere, thanks to Katrina.
Finally, to the Abbott Family.... I don't watch TS often, just happened to catch the Bayou episode. I haven't seen yours but will watch with open mind if I have the chance. However, you might be amused to know that I found this board while looking for further information on Barbara. While browsing through the information here, even among all the hateful posts, I have become interested in learning more about Tao and your lifestyle. So in a very wierd and wacky way, thanks to TS, this is a good thing.
Best Regards from a Refugee
Welcome Msrefugee,
1) Barb came by our house a few months ago for a few days visit. She came on a Sunday so joined in our Taoist meeting. Nothing like a Taoist meeting to 'dig down deep' into ourselves. I found her very likable, curious, flexible and strong. Just a very well balance and decent human being, as I find most are. So, yes, the editing can do a lot to convey an impression that is heavily biased in what ever direction the TV folks wish their story line to follow.
Initially we were bent our of shape by the somewhat distorted story they made out of our lives. Same goes for Barbara. That is because we never expected such 'creative' efforts by the TV editors to make the story go a certain way. We were naive. Now, if they had told us how creative they were going to be, I'm know my wife and kids would have vetoed our involvement from the start. Heck, they were reluctant from the start as it was.
So, obviously they are not inclined to give 'full disclosure', but hey, 'buyer beware'. Realizing the 'big picture', personally anyway, has made the whole experience a real plus as far as I'm concerned. But then I've always been up for an adventure! This brings me to your next point...
2) Your correct, it really was and is a "very weird and wacky good thing".
Because make no mistake, there is an agenda. Which is what I think makes the vegan lady different, and so overwhelmingly disliked: at first it's like god, she's a righteous bitch, isn't she? but then, she's on a reality t.v. show and so you have to acknowledge the possibilty that she's being portrayed not as she actually is, but as Fox or whoever want her to be. But then you hear that letter she wrote Diana and realize that Fox just got really lucky with her. That there's no way even the best editor could have created this character. This is a real lady. And the lady is a bitch.
Welcome, and thanks for your post. It exemplifies one of the difficulties we face in having this big brain of ours. We so easily believe in what we think to the exclusion of [chref=71]knowing, yet thinking we do not know[/chref]. Remember, you merely watched an episode on TV which aired a carefully edited and rearranged fraction of a filmed reality to heighten the drama - you were hoodwinked. Like so many of us these days, your response, is based on an interpretation (here TV) and thus mostly devoid of real personal experience. You 'hate' the idea; this intense emotion (hate) you feel exemplifies Buddha's observation that life is suffering. I can only say that throwing stones at others may feel good at the moment, but in the long run never elevates the pain. And, in my experience anyway, may actually increase it. [chref=23]That is why one follows the way[/chref].
Good luck
I guess you defend barbara as a victim to the media & editing, sure it's not good to judge people but you can't possibly justify her and the way she treated the Loupe family. I hope never to scoop that low or to be so prideful or self centred. Again, hope she learns from it, I have. Good luck Barbara.
In any case, thanks Carl, I hear ya and am looking forward to the show tonight.
Hi Sharon,
(1) Well, after you see our families' second episode you may hate me too, especially if you believe what 'your lying eyes and ears tell you'...
(2) Your comment here conveys to me how the show 'manipulated' your emotions. The editing is done to do just that, not only in actual fiction movies, but 'reality' one as well. And, for that matter, probably all presentations. Presentation of anything by anyone always has the agenda of the presenter involved. There is no such thing as neutral. [chref=2]Therefore the sage keeps to the deed that consists in taking no action and practices the teaching that uses no words.[/chref]
(3) I am really a rather ruthless sob, as many others may attest. So, I'm not actually defending Barbara, as I'm trying to pass along my observations. That is really all I do on this site (mostly anyway). Barbara actually visited us and attended our Sunday Taoist meeting. Spending the day with her, challenging and probing her 'mind set' as I'm given to do, I'm all the more certain of the extent the show was edited. Mind you, she is a strong woman. They use clips of that personality juxtaposed with clips of the other 'actors' to make the story. Of course, the story is believable by everyone, because it is essentially an exaggerated version everyone's story, i.e., we all want our way - what we desire. Our rights and our beliefs are the bunkers in which we dwell as we battle our way through life. A good dramatic story, convincingly edited, tunes right into our own 'baggage'.
It is all kind of ironic in a way. What we see is a reflection of who we are. At least that's how I've come to see it. Which is a reflection of who I am. What does this mean? [chref=56]This is known as mysterious sameness[/chref], I suppose.
So, enjoy the show Sharon. Certainly you will enjoy it more if you ignore everything I'm saying. When we were first contacted by Fox to be on Trading Spouses we began watching it, and really enjoyed it - we believed the show was showing it like it was. After we saw how creative they were with our reality, the show wasn't fun to watch anymore. For example, we are driving back from the airport with Vicki and she asked us if we have TV and coffee. You hear us say "no". CLICK Here for the true picture. So you see, as reality, such a show offers interesting insights into family life. But, if it is manipulated heavily to make in 'interesting', it looses the one thing that made it interesting to watch - at least for me.
By the way, where about in Australia are you? I emigrated there in 1963, spent time in Perth and up at Canarvan before wandering off to Asia. I loved it!
In regards to Barbara... mysterious sameness.... I definately didn't see a reflection of who I was in her... hell no! But this much is true, she represented people who I have crossed paths with that were mean to me, in the same way - that is the only thing that I can make a connection with and I suppose the very reason why she bothered me.
She didn't seem like a strong women to me but maybe the TS experience has changed her into one which is great... turning a negative experience into a positive one.
I look forward to the second episode. As long as you're not mistreating children or animals, going against what you believe in - Tao or leaving negative letters about your child and parenting then I'll be fine.
Sharon from Sydney, Aus.
... This is part of what I was getting at. The show touched a sensitive nerve in you. Emotions tend to amplify perceptions. Thus, you naturally feel the way you do about Barbara, as the edited TV show portrayed her. Sure, there is an element of truth in the show, but the clever editing greatly exaggerated that element to the point of fiction.
The same kind of think happened in our show. Some folks were very upset with my 'brain washing' my kids. Of course, the reality was just opposite. True, I did raise them from birth in a Taoist way. But, that boils down to just the opposite of what you might think 'brain washing' entails, e.g., [chref=17]the best of all 'parents' is but a shadowy presence to his subjects[/chref] (in the sense of just letting them be themselves).
That 'brain washing' was a projection of Vicki. She just could not understand where we were coming from. Anyway, people who got upset with my 'brain washing' seem, by and large, incapable of 'giving us the benefit of the doubt' - even when confronted with the evidence that son Luke detailed. Anyway, maybe food for thought.
everything they think they know about our relationship is coming from their own preconceived notions and minisucule knowledge of our homelife...they're basing what they think on interviews with a traumatized (from losing his family) boy who at best is nervous in such situations...on their own beliefs and morals...on the answers of a stammering inarticulate boy & i know the kinds of leading questions they ask...and the grandparents are ashamed because they werent there for this boy more in his life, his biological family was a bunch of jerks and losers and a stranger became the best parent their grandson ever had...
so they look at the bits and pieces (our casual ideas about nudity, cussing, speaking our mind), our strange habits & hobbies (barefooting, martial arts, eastern religions), that im 40 year old man with a 12 yo boy (for 6 years! but they dont see that, anymore than they see how the abbott boys are well adjusted after a lifetime with carl)...they believe what the media broadcasts, and are too busy or lazy to dig into the real facts...
what im getting at is alot of people are making alot of assumptions based on a very edited twisted version of the facts...such is tv as in life...
there are times in my life with the boy when i could have come across as evil as barbara gates did, and time i could have come across as mother theresa...guess which looks better, on paper and on tv...
I watched the second episode and enjoyed it. I didn't come out of it feeling bitter or irritated like I did when I watched Barbara. I felt that it was a good experience for both families. As bad as the world can be, it still is a beautiful world out there. I hope you travel the world again, it'll be good for the soul.
Cheers mate! All the best,
Sharon
Hi Sharon,
Well, I'm happy you didn't come away from our show feeling irritated! Truly though, I am much better at irritating people in person.
RE: "good for the soul". It sounds to me like Fox's TV editors hoodwinked you a bit on our show as well. Traveling anywhere is actually a symptom of a "soul" lacking [chref=33]contentment[/chref]. For example, at the most mundane level, I'll sit here as long as I'm content doing so. When I cease feeling content, I'll move on to something and somewhere else (like the toilet maybe) nudged along by another need (I drank a big pot of tea awhile ago :roll: ). The same principle holds true for larger scale circumstances as well, e.g., [chref=80]will be content in their abode, and happy in the way they live. [/chref].
The 'virtue' of travel has become a big part of the modern cultural myth. Like the 'virtue' of sending your kids off to preschool, it is a rationalization to justify a poverty of spirit (i.e., discontentment) that ironically tends to follow the accumulation of wealth. When all is said and done, [chref=46]there is no disaster greater than not being content[/chref]. We just can't have our cake and eat it too. Nuts!
Good luck mate.
Yes, we would have some lively interaction! Maybe it is a good thing you are on the other side of the planet. I'm getting to be an old man now and might not be able to take it.
... Likewise, I wish you safe journey.
you're not my better, you're not superior.
and the editing job you claim made you look so awful... come on no matter the amount of editing it can't give you something you lack and that is a show of character.
you're insulting, immature, bigoted (yes you are) and ... disgrace.
it's sad to know most are like you are.
i'm glad i'm a vegetarian, least i know my place in the world.
I fully understand how the editors could have completely misrepresented you on national television and I know how painful that would have been... if it were true. I'm sure there's some truth to the statement -- maybe there were things we didn't see. I know you won't respond but all of your responses and open letters that I've encountered since I've seen this show tonight appear to only distract from the issue at hand: the things we did see.
1. You, the self-righteous, self-proclaimed protector of all animals (except reptiles, which are "not animals") physically abused a dog for everyone to see and used negative reinforcement as your perspective on behavior modification. Was that a computer animation? I didn't know Fox could afford those kinds of special effects!
2. You espouse the natural value for soy and vegetable products. You talk about how garden-burgers actually prevent cancer. I can't say whether that is true or not, but I find it amusing that you smoke. Was that a "fitting in" in LA thing too, or is that a regular occurrence? Do you smoke in the car? I hope you don't throw cigarette butts out the window.
3. You drank cheap beer. Am I being classist (as you were when you called everyone in LA behind the curve, compared to the enlightened Californians)? No. If you were a serious vegan, you would probably know that most beer products are prepared with fish oil/extract in the fermentation and processing plants. Study up.
4. But then, who am I kidding? You ate alligator. Since when do you really care about being a strict vegan? You compromised your morals pretty quickly, huh? Yes, only the cute animals count. That's right. Everyone self-important Californian would know that! Beauty is what counts, right?
5. And as a matter of fact, I pity the fact that you aren't beautiful. At least not on the inside! You have to make up for that with wildly inflated boasts about your intelligence.
I actually have more I want to say, but I am going to stop. I am looking at this post realizing how awful I sound... look what you've turned me into! I'm usually a very nice person. I even live in California so of course I'm nice, and smart, and beautiful! Ugh, I can't stop.
I used to live in DC and animal activists would setup a van on the corner near my house with televisions built into the side of it. They would loop video of animals being fattened, slaughtered, and abused. Yes it was terrible. Of course it was terrible! Was it appropriate for public display? No. Did I resent this video, no more decent than pornography, being shown to random children and passerby? Yes. Please consider your tact.
Look, regarding your innocence, I think that is what irritates me the most. So I will close with this... it is not what we didn't see, it is what we did see: you hit the dog, you put down everyone in LA, you were wicked to the children, and you were a hypocritical shove-it-down-their-throats preacher. These things did not require fancy editing. You said them, you did them, and the proof is in the production.
If I had to choose between your posts which could be 100% fabrications and a half-truth from Fox TV, I choose Fox.
Thank you everyone for allowing me to vent. I have never been so disturbed and angry by anything that I have seen on television in my entire life.
And to all of you "look, this person is too weak to create an account and is hiding behind a 'guest' name" people. There's no point in writing to me however. You either agree or disagree and either way, neither of us will change our opinions on a topic that makes people so emotional. I welcome the discourse regardless however.
-- Sean Parker ([email protected])
PS: Carl, I am watching you next. I half expect you to feed illegal narcotics to 2 year olds or kill homeless people. You seem to identify with Barbaric so I guess I am expecting the worst.
Thank you.
And.
Goodnight.