[cite] NZer:[/cite]You've made me speechless. How bloody MEAN of you. I'm embarrassed to think you are a fellow New Zealander, mouthing off like that.
You say:
"Who the hell died and made you "GOD" How dare you go and Judge other people's family morals when your own is to be questioned"
Jo_NZ who made YOU God and who are YOU to judge this Vegan mum?
You go off about her being judgemental, you are a complete hypocrite, all you did was go nuts in disgust at her, and here you are being just as bad. How stupid!
You came off looking like a right idiot there.
It's a TV Programme, grow up! Editing does these things. I'm not saying she was a great person, but she's probably no where near as bad as she's been made out either.
You Say "Have Respect for others and dont be such a BITCH!"
HAHA.. EAT YOUR OWN WORDS!!!!
and besides.. your just as "MOUTHY" & biartchy as me.. fellow Keewee.. Muahahahahaha!
Woo! Now we're getting some action! Buddy1 and I'll just observe (until we post) from front row seats with the glass shield to protect ourselves from any smashed watermelons. ( I have no idea why I just said that. Sorry folks)
We have a Kiwi tree but I'm not to fond of the fruit 'cause it's so acidic, the fruit burns my tongue when I eat it.
Carl you are arrogant and scared. You keep those boys under a psychological lock and key because you are afraid of being alone. You discourage them from exploring the world through parental manipulation, and deep down you know this. You've got to let those boys spread their wings.
Ah. Well, isn't that nice. I've already said enough to persuade anyone who cares to exercise their neurons to think twice about what they saw on the show, but I'm sure Kyle will think of something nice to say.
And forgive me for moving your post, Sven, but I thought it would be more appropriate to place it in the "emotions taking over" and "let's believe what we see on TV" thread, i.e. Jo_NZ's comments. (And besides, this is my web site...)
Carl you are arrogant and scared. You keep those boys under a psychological lock and key because you are afraid of being alone. You discourage them from exploring the world through parental manipulation, and deep down you know this. You've got to let those boys spread their wings.
Sven
Oh shut up you little rancourous coiffured old sow. Why don't you swing the doughnuts out of your ears and knock some sense into that dormant organ you all keep hidden in that rat's maze of yours! And as for wings, the only wings you have are chained down to your little world and to your computer.
How on earth do you know about "deep down" you stump? You're not only shallow but I can't see the bottom from your murkiness.
And "Sven," you're misspelling. It spelled "Seven". Apperantly you are a number and not a name which explains a lot about where you are right now. . . under lock and key. You won't get a bail from me.
By the way, this isn't Carl by the way you shriveled lump of primordial ectoplasm.
Go choke on a cream puff, you fruitcake.
- - - - -
Man, this is fun! I haven't felt this alive since people like Sven made similar posts about us about a half a year ago.
Sven, may I sugget you watch a show called "The Reality of Reality TV". I'm sorry you don't know the truth about Carl. He's a very loving man and father. I wish you peace and am sorry you are in such pain about this.
Realizing that Sven's judgements simply reflect his own inner world, I had no intention to respond. I see my younger son, 'TaoNut' did, however. Being 15, he is as yet unable to really feel that Sven's comments are about Sven, and not our family. This brings up a larger issue which is worth pondering. When someone, like Sven, bullies and casts stones there are, in my experience only two responses:
1) Take the attack personally, at face value. This can result in a vigorous defensive reaction as happened with my son. Others folks would shrug it off because it's no big deal for them, while still others would cower and be afraid to respond out of fear. Or, it can turn out to be a blend of some of these.
2) Deeply realize that casting stones, as Sven did, is a symptom of a bullies' inner pain. No happy person 'chooses' to be a bully. A person's actions and attitudes reflect their inner struggle to cope with life. When you know this is so, forgiving becomes automatic, as does empathy for the suffering of the person (Sven in this case). Such compassion may sound blissful and compared to the poison of vengeance it is. Nevertheless, compassion results from bearing and sharing the sorrow of the sufferer, i.e., [chref=49]The sage has no mind of his own. He takes as his own the mind of the people. [/chref]
Now, which would you choose, (1) ro (2)? I see we have no choice in the matter. It just happens naturally when you stop resisting, which occurs when you stop taking 'it' personally. Then the distinction, the line, between 'I' and 'you', 'us' and 'them', 'this' and 'that' begins to subside. 'I' become 'you', 'we' become 'them', 'this' becomes 'that'. We then know we are in this together. In the face of this [chref=56]mysterious sameness[/chref] all we can do is surrender in awe, and bear our mutual cross together.
When I read the angry posts I wondered why do these people get off on being angry? Why would they be motivated to vent their anger on strangers like that? Does it make them feel 'better than'? To a certain degree that could be true, but at a deeper level , like Carl says, these people are suffering.
I know in my experience, below anger is always fear.
you are the ignorant one Sven, if you watch and believe EVERYTHING you see on TV as fact. it is very evident, if one has a shread of intellect, that Trading Spouses is heavily edited.
Carl and his family are one of the coolest and most loving of families.
[cite] Lynn Cornish:[/cite]I know in my experience, below anger is always fear.
Yes, fear plays a huge role. But, so too does our sense of despair and disconnection - an unwanted consequence of civilization. Of course disconnection can evoke a deep sense of fear. Have a nice day!
Well I watched prt2 of Trading Spouses lastnight and I really enjoyed it.. Carl, I think you did wonderfully.. For Leslie's (sp) Birthday you all Celebrated with a "JAM" and I found that highly entertaining.. Vickie is a lovely woman and she has such a loving, kind and caring family..
to be honest I didnt see anything wrong with your episode in fact my sister called me and told me that "she would love to spend a week with you guys" As for your ""Jamming" sessions.. Alot of us Kiwi's enjoy that kind of Music believe it or not.. I was actually singing along with Vickie lastnight while watching it..
All in all (even though it was edited) I enjoyed it..
The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death. When we were in tribes, being thrown out of the tribe would kill you. I know you are talking about disconnection in a social/spiritual way, but our human nature (at least mine!) reacts similarly. Why else is the number one fear the fear of speaking in public? It's fear of being rejected. I have been thinking that all fears stem from the fear of death.
My original point is that anger is sublimated fear.
[cite] Lynn Cornish:[/cite]The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death.
Well, yes, seeing how's you put it that way.
I suppose I was referring to the trauma we feel, the isolation, the lack of life meaning, which results from our defacto disconnection. We do cry over spilt milk. In addition, as you say, is the fear of spilling yet more milk.
the trauma we feel, the isolation, the lack of life meaning
Yes, there is all that. It is very sad. I especially notice it in WalMart.
I read an article that said that the happiest people in the world are Mexicans followed by Puerto Ricans. That would be surprising to most Americans because these people have the least in material possessions. But when you have everything you need to be comfortable, and survival is no longer an issue, then where is the meaning to your life? It's a lot harder to find.
Lately, a phrase from my Catholic upbringing has been repeating in my head: the veil of tears. And lifting the veil of tears. I never knew what that meant but it sounded cool. Now I know what that is, and I feel like I know the veil and so lifting it is possible. Know what I mean?
anyone ever see those books of photos where they went all around the world and had families put everything they own in front of their homes? sickening how much americans had, and they didnt look any happier...
why, i've heard of families having as many as 6 or 7 tv's...
[cite] Lynn Cornish:[/cite]...The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death....
It is just one big vicious circle. :? Adding to the mix is the fact that civilization induces a sense of disconnection in all of us due to its sheer size and scale. This sense then evokes fear and insecurity, which in turn has myriad repercussions. Maybe this lays it out more clearly??? Well, I try.
A Civilization Reflects its Population
A civilization reflects the median of its population's inclinations and characteristics. A population's median age may play a large role in this, i.e., inclinations mature as we age, and thus so should a civilization's. In other word, a population whose median age is 18 would result in a civilization far more 'active' than one whole median age was 80... or 180!
The median of a population is the midpoint on the whole population's bell curve. The bell curve spans from on extreme to the other and everything in-between. Because civilization reflects the mean, or average characteristics of the whole population, it best matches those of us whose nature are closest to the median. Folks on either extreme are not going to be well represented by the particular civilization's paradigm and thus will have the most difficulty fitting in - in connecting.
Inevitably though, the shear scale of modern civilization probably leaves most of us feeling disconnected to some degree. The intimacy of the family and tribe is weaker now than ever. As always, this deficit can not be compensated for by civilization. The haunting sense of disconnection, to whatever degree each of us feels, evokes fear which manifests itself in myriad ways, as Freud noticed as the industrial revolution - industrial civilization - was ramping up. These changes over the past several hundred years have deepened our personal sense of disconnection. This likely reflects the rate of technological innovation, and thus may end up leaving us feeling disconnected at an exponential rate. YIKES! :shock:
This underlying sense of disconnection drives us to seek re-connection, as never before, in countless ways: shopping, drugs, travel, work, media, sex, eating, sports, clothes,... and so on. Of course, if you concur with Buddha's Second Noble Truth, you know that none of this stuff re-connects us to the 'whole'. So while Armageddon is unlikely, the next few centuries sure look to be an interesting time for us all.
you hit an animal? how do you chalk that up to editing?
regardless of how you were portrayed, if you are physically or verbally abusive to children or animals, you need help. It's sad to see you learned nothing from this experience, except how to convince yourself that your a 'victim'.
I just ran across your website today after becoming curious about the Trading Spouses programs and wondering if other peoples' perceptions on it were the same as mine... and here I am.
I would just like to say to the Abbott family that regardless of how the program was edited I thought your family was wonderful and charming, and could be a good example to families everywhere. Your genuine warmth, love and respect for each other and those you came into contact with appearantly couldn't be edited.
So thanks for sharing your lives with the rest of us.
Love,
Wendy
Being an editor myself, I know the extent that editing can change things. And granted, it can be very deceitful. But there are certain things that editing cannot change. Like when Barbara says a line with the camera directly on her face, and her mouth is perfectly in sync with the crap coming out of it...editing doesn't change that. Some of the things she said, she said. And most of the things she said were just flat out wrong.
I agree with everyone who says that the editing distorts the "reality". It's a tv show and the purpose is entertainment. There wouldn't be any entertainment value without some controversy. But, I still don't think that you can blame the editing entirely. Even if you disagree with the Abbott's lifestyle/philosophy, you can't deny that their household is filled with love. They seem to enjoy being with each other. The Vegan Mom's family seemed to be afraid of her, and with good reason. Even with the extensive editing, Carl and his family still came off as good people. Even if Barbara is only one tenth of the shrew that she was portrayed as, she's still evil in my opinion.
You may notice that some posts have been deleted. I wanted to let everyone know what happened here. While I was hanging out at a bluegrass festival over the weekend, some (apparently) pretty nasty comments were left regarding Trading Spouses (yeah, what else is new?). My mom ("TaoCow") made the mistake of checking the boards ? which, due to all the mean emotional posts lately, she really shouldn't do ? and responded to a couple posters, which unfortunately only fueled the flames.
So today I came back, and later on mama mentioned the CT posts, and I took a looksie. We started talking about how it was probably a mistake to address a TS "family-basher" ? we've said all that needs to be said already. Responding to these (delusional?) posters only adds to the pain that resulted from having our life distorted so viciously.
Mama said that she wanted to edit her postings and take out her responses to the TS watchers, but couldn't figure out how to do it, so I offered to do it for her. (For the record, any registered user can edit their posts; just click the "Edit" button in the upper right corner of your post.)
I turned on my computer (the one blessed with the special "administrative" privileges I was talking about in this post), but had to go do something just then. Anyway, while I was away, Mama figured out how to access the moderator controls on my computer and deleted her posts. However (and this is the issue) she then proceeded to delete several negative posts as well. (Once you delete a post on CenterTao, it's gone forever.)
As I've said before, while I certainly don't enjoy having a bunch of mean-spirited comments on this message board, I believe very strongly in keeping my personal feelings from affecting my decisions as to my moderation of this board. Editing discussions to suit my fancy just seems like lying, not to mention stooping to FOX's level.
To conclude: Mama and I sorted it out, and she realizes it was a mistake, but for this particular instance it's too late to do anything about it. I just wanted to let everyone know that I was very disturbed about this, and it doesn't reflect the principles of this site. It won't happen again.
I completely agree. Barbra proved herself (and she did this in her own WORDS not by EDITING) to be a clinically sadistic and narcisistic person. And by the way I have experience in editing documentaries and you can play with the images as much as you want, but you can't create a reality that is nonexistant. Maybe the editors cut out some moments where Barbra was "kind" but I don't think any of her wonderfully intelligent and compassionate ways would ever make up for the horrid, cruel comments she ALSO said. She calls herself open minded and intelligent but honestly I think she?s insecure about her coveted ?individuality.? By the way, didn?t any ANIMAL LOVER ever EXPLAIN TO HER that you DON?T TEACH DOGS TO NOT DO SOMETHING BY SHOVING THEIR NOSE INTO THE PROBLEM? You have to catch the dog in the act and then say ?NO.? Otherwise they don?t make the connection between something on the floor and their own bad action. You never NEVER treat a dog the way she did. Vegan or No. But of course, she thinks she knows all about parenting (berating a child because they ?love discipline?) and about training animals without cruelty, doesn?t she? Barbera, I hope you can forgive yourself for your selfish, cruel and hypocritical nature.
Barbara:
You use the editing techniques to excuse your bad behavior. Editing does not put words in your mouth or make you perform actions that would be considered out of line or down right cruel.
You spoke ill of the Loupe family and it was clear that you thought yourself superior to them. Through all the fake tears and drama to bring attention to yourself, the only point in the whole show that brought a brief smile to your face was the $20,000 given to you from Mrs. Loupe.
You should be ashamed of yourself and offer apologies to the Loupe family instead of excuses!
I am not writing this to be hurtful to you, but what i watched wasn't just an editing thing. It was a side of you Barbara that is real, and you know it. the truth hurts.(you are very good at dishing it out to others, i hope you will listen and learn). I watched a very controlling, rude, individual named barbara, tell a very kind family named the loupe's how they should live their life. Barbara, the words that came out of your mouth, are more disgusting then anything a human could digest. Your actions were unkind, thoughtless and all about you.
i hope and pray you will learn something about yourself by watching yourself on this show. You have just let millions of people see a side of you that is sooooooo ugly and sad. You have no idea how the world lives. I am amazed and shocked how little you knew of another state. sad. California is not the only place in this big world of ours. There is a whole other part,, with people of all walks, culture, eating habits, languages. You would probably be shocked to know these people actually live in your state too, even close by you. i wonder if you could treat them with a little respect and kindness.
Focus on the hurtful words you say, the tone of your voice, the judgement you show to others. it's very unkind and rude.
And the way you treated the dog was also unkind. hope you learn from diane and dieago, and ZZ. i thought they were so kind, sweet, patient, loving, and non-judgemental. They, were an example of kindness.[/quote]
I have never posted on any BBbefore in my life. I had to find this one to vent. I have never wanted to rip somebody head off as much as I do Barbara gates. Youare the devil. The way you treated this family was hidious.
DONT BLAME THE EDITING.
Al I can say is Karma. I home you read the boards on the internet. NOBODY likes you. NOBODY ..people have HATE for you.
I have read 1000 messages and not One persona supports you . Even your own communites HATE you.
this is not acceptable, to say you hate someone you don't even know. You then need to look at yourself and change. i don't agree with how barbara treated the loupe family, she was thoughtless and unkind, but there is no need to hate her. Hate the actions, not the person, or you then are just as unkind, and casting like she did the first stone. She will hopefully realize and learn from these posts and all the people who were bothered by her behaviour.
BUt you are not the one to judge her by hated. That is even worse and more evil.
Comments
and besides.. your just as "MOUTHY" & biartchy as me.. fellow Keewee.. Muahahahahaha!
We have a Kiwi tree but I'm not to fond of the fruit 'cause it's so acidic, the fruit burns my tongue when I eat it.
Sven
And forgive me for moving your post, Sven, but I thought it would be more appropriate to place it in the "emotions taking over" and "let's believe what we see on TV" thread, i.e. Jo_NZ's comments. (And besides, this is my web site...)
Oh shut up you little rancourous coiffured old sow. Why don't you swing the doughnuts out of your ears and knock some sense into that dormant organ you all keep hidden in that rat's maze of yours! And as for wings, the only wings you have are chained down to your little world and to your computer.
How on earth do you know about "deep down" you stump? You're not only shallow but I can't see the bottom from your murkiness.
And "Sven," you're misspelling. It spelled "Seven". Apperantly you are a number and not a name which explains a lot about where you are right now. . . under lock and key. You won't get a bail from me.
By the way, this isn't Carl by the way you shriveled lump of primordial ectoplasm.
Go choke on a cream puff, you fruitcake.
- - - - -
Man, this is fun! I haven't felt this alive since people like Sven made similar posts about us about a half a year ago.
you're lucky taonut's a peaceful person or he might say something really mean to you...
1) Take the attack personally, at face value. This can result in a vigorous defensive reaction as happened with my son. Others folks would shrug it off because it's no big deal for them, while still others would cower and be afraid to respond out of fear. Or, it can turn out to be a blend of some of these.
2) Deeply realize that casting stones, as Sven did, is a symptom of a bullies' inner pain. No happy person 'chooses' to be a bully. A person's actions and attitudes reflect their inner struggle to cope with life. When you know this is so, forgiving becomes automatic, as does empathy for the suffering of the person (Sven in this case). Such compassion may sound blissful and compared to the poison of vengeance it is. Nevertheless, compassion results from bearing and sharing the sorrow of the sufferer, i.e., [chref=49]The sage has no mind of his own. He takes as his own the mind of the people. [/chref]
Now, which would you choose, (1) ro (2)? I see we have no choice in the matter. It just happens naturally when you stop resisting, which occurs when you stop taking 'it' personally. Then the distinction, the line, between 'I' and 'you', 'us' and 'them', 'this' and 'that' begins to subside. 'I' become 'you', 'we' become 'them', 'this' becomes 'that'. We then know we are in this together. In the face of this [chref=56]mysterious sameness[/chref] all we can do is surrender in awe, and bear our mutual cross together.
I know in my experience, below anger is always fear.
Carl and his family are one of the coolest and most loving of families.
to be honest I didnt see anything wrong with your episode in fact my sister called me and told me that "she would love to spend a week with you guys" As for your ""Jamming" sessions.. Alot of us Kiwi's enjoy that kind of Music believe it or not.. I was actually singing along with Vickie lastnight while watching it..
All in all (even though it was edited) I enjoyed it..
Carl, you hand me a laugh!
The fear of disconnection I think comes from a fear of death. When we were in tribes, being thrown out of the tribe would kill you. I know you are talking about disconnection in a social/spiritual way, but our human nature (at least mine!) reacts similarly. Why else is the number one fear the fear of speaking in public? It's fear of being rejected. I have been thinking that all fears stem from the fear of death.
My original point is that anger is sublimated fear.
Well, yes, seeing how's you put it that way.
I suppose I was referring to the trauma we feel, the isolation, the lack of life meaning, which results from our defacto disconnection. We do cry over spilt milk. In addition, as you say, is the fear of spilling yet more milk.
Yes, there is all that. It is very sad. I especially notice it in WalMart.
I read an article that said that the happiest people in the world are Mexicans followed by Puerto Ricans. That would be surprising to most Americans because these people have the least in material possessions. But when you have everything you need to be comfortable, and survival is no longer an issue, then where is the meaning to your life? It's a lot harder to find.
Lately, a phrase from my Catholic upbringing has been repeating in my head: the veil of tears. And lifting the veil of tears. I never knew what that meant but it sounded cool. Now I know what that is, and I feel like I know the veil and so lifting it is possible. Know what I mean?
it was a weird week at work.
anyone ever see those books of photos where they went all around the world and had families put everything they own in front of their homes? sickening how much americans had, and they didnt look any happier...
why, i've heard of families having as many as 6 or 7 tv's...
A Civilization Reflects its Population
A civilization reflects the median of its population's inclinations and characteristics. A population's median age may play a large role in this, i.e., inclinations mature as we age, and thus so should a civilization's. In other word, a population whose median age is 18 would result in a civilization far more 'active' than one whole median age was 80... or 180!
The median of a population is the midpoint on the whole population's bell curve. The bell curve spans from on extreme to the other and everything in-between. Because civilization reflects the mean, or average characteristics of the whole population, it best matches those of us whose nature are closest to the median. Folks on either extreme are not going to be well represented by the particular civilization's paradigm and thus will have the most difficulty fitting in - in connecting.
Inevitably though, the shear scale of modern civilization probably leaves most of us feeling disconnected to some degree. The intimacy of the family and tribe is weaker now than ever. As always, this deficit can not be compensated for by civilization. The haunting sense of disconnection, to whatever degree each of us feels, evokes fear which manifests itself in myriad ways, as Freud noticed as the industrial revolution - industrial civilization - was ramping up. These changes over the past several hundred years have deepened our personal sense of disconnection. This likely reflects the rate of technological innovation, and thus may end up leaving us feeling disconnected at an exponential rate. YIKES! :shock:
This underlying sense of disconnection drives us to seek re-connection, as never before, in countless ways: shopping, drugs, travel, work, media, sex, eating, sports, clothes,... and so on. Of course, if you concur with Buddha's Second Noble Truth, you know that none of this stuff re-connects us to the 'whole'. So while Armageddon is unlikely, the next few centuries sure look to be an interesting time for us all.
regardless of how you were portrayed, if you are physically or verbally abusive to children or animals, you need help. It's sad to see you learned nothing from this experience, except how to convince yourself that your a 'victim'.
I would just like to say to the Abbott family that regardless of how the program was edited I thought your family was wonderful and charming, and could be a good example to families everywhere. Your genuine warmth, love and respect for each other and those you came into contact with appearantly couldn't be edited.
So thanks for sharing your lives with the rest of us.
Love,
Wendy
So today I came back, and later on mama mentioned the CT posts, and I took a looksie. We started talking about how it was probably a mistake to address a TS "family-basher" ? we've said all that needs to be said already. Responding to these (delusional?) posters only adds to the pain that resulted from having our life distorted so viciously.
Mama said that she wanted to edit her postings and take out her responses to the TS watchers, but couldn't figure out how to do it, so I offered to do it for her. (For the record, any registered user can edit their posts; just click the "Edit" button in the upper right corner of your post.)
I turned on my computer (the one blessed with the special "administrative" privileges I was talking about in this post), but had to go do something just then. Anyway, while I was away, Mama figured out how to access the moderator controls on my computer and deleted her posts. However (and this is the issue) she then proceeded to delete several negative posts as well. (Once you delete a post on CenterTao, it's gone forever.)
As I've said before, while I certainly don't enjoy having a bunch of mean-spirited comments on this message board, I believe very strongly in keeping my personal feelings from affecting my decisions as to my moderation of this board. Editing discussions to suit my fancy just seems like lying, not to mention stooping to FOX's level.
To conclude: Mama and I sorted it out, and she realizes it was a mistake, but for this particular instance it's too late to do anything about it. I just wanted to let everyone know that I was very disturbed about this, and it doesn't reflect the principles of this site. It won't happen again.
Sincerely,
Luke
namaste.
You use the editing techniques to excuse your bad behavior. Editing does not put words in your mouth or make you perform actions that would be considered out of line or down right cruel.
You spoke ill of the Loupe family and it was clear that you thought yourself superior to them. Through all the fake tears and drama to bring attention to yourself, the only point in the whole show that brought a brief smile to your face was the $20,000 given to you from Mrs. Loupe.
You should be ashamed of yourself and offer apologies to the Loupe family instead of excuses!
i hope and pray you will learn something about yourself by watching yourself on this show. You have just let millions of people see a side of you that is sooooooo ugly and sad. You have no idea how the world lives. I am amazed and shocked how little you knew of another state. sad. California is not the only place in this big world of ours. There is a whole other part,, with people of all walks, culture, eating habits, languages. You would probably be shocked to know these people actually live in your state too, even close by you. i wonder if you could treat them with a little respect and kindness.
Focus on the hurtful words you say, the tone of your voice, the judgement you show to others. it's very unkind and rude.
And the way you treated the dog was also unkind. hope you learn from diane and dieago, and ZZ. i thought they were so kind, sweet, patient, loving, and non-judgemental. They, were an example of kindness.[/quote]
DONT BLAME THE EDITING.
Al I can say is Karma. I home you read the boards on the internet. NOBODY likes you. NOBODY ..people have HATE for you.
I have read 1000 messages and not One persona supports you . Even your own communites HATE you.
BUt you are not the one to judge her by hated. That is even worse and more evil.