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lynnemail3
If we do not need masters and teachers then why did Lao Tzu write the Tao Te Ching?
My Master(Sifu) teaches without words.
Have a great day :-)
My Master(Sifu) teaches without words.
Have a great day :-)
Comments
This loooong post is a collection of emails between Lynn and myself over three years or so. They are arrange in order from the latest going back in time to 2004. It's so long that it must be posted in 4 parts.
We tackled various issues over that time. Mostly she posses a good question (in italics) to which I respond. Questions are always better than answers, but I do the best I can - apparently 'blowing her mind', as she puts it, more than once. I'm always 'blowing my mind', so I guess we share good communication. I don't know if these will be helpful to anyone, perhaps they are not even worth the paper they are printed on.
=== (up to date uncertain) ===
Chemicals and Thought
I learned that the reason I don't ever want to leave home is that I am addicted to the chemicals produced in my brain by being with my animals.
Ah, but everything - EVERYTHING - is chemical in the brain. I think we don't like to think of it that way as a society because that removes all rationalizations about free will, choice... blah, blah, blah... I just thought up this stuff below last night and during yoga. Some of my best thought comes when I'm not thinking!
Thoughts:
*The illusion and a source of woe: Our mind thinks it is in charge! *The fact: Emotion rules, intellect follows. (I'd put here, emotion is especially deep seated biochemical comings and goings)
Although our mind thinks is has free will, it is instead simply conforming to deep seated mood – our emotional will so to speak, over which we have no control. This 'will', our emotion and mood, stimulates the mind to rationalize our emotional experience and mood into thoughts which it can then reflect upon. If emotion is high, we 'lug' the thoughts it evoked around with us. The problem with this is that these thought feedback into the emotions and a vicious circle ensues. If, like most other animals we had a much smaller brain we would be unable to do this and so our emotional turmoil would pass as soon as the stimulus that evoked it ceased.
The mind can notice phenomenon as well. How it interprets and thinks about what it notices depends on what is at stake emotionally speaking for the individual. The less your emotional stake in the observation, the more neutral – 'objective' – your observation will be. Of course if you have no emotional stake, interest wanes and you more likely not to notice the phenomenon in the first place. Kind of a conundrum, eh?
Belief ties into this process. The mind adopts the rational(ization) which matches its emotional master. Thus, some folks are attracted to 'liberal' views while others are attracted to 'conservative' views. Each in accord with their emotional comfort zone.
One 'solution' to our mind caused problem is knowing what the mind is doing in its relationship with emotion / mood. This is not unlike know how a magician does his most impressive trick. Once you know how it works it can't captivate you as strongly.
Happiness
They say that meditation has no goal, but happiest person in the world is certainly some aspiration!
Well, I'd say to be happy one needs to feel life meaningful. If aspiration does that, then happiness is in the cards. However, aspiration has its down side, un-met expectations and aspirations bring frustration. So, the 'deeper down' your well of life meaning reaches, the less success or failure disturb happiness.
Death
I'm experiencing what I call the little deaths...you know what I mean, huh? The no self. I think death must be that and if it is, why be scared!
YES INDEED! We are only scared because it is the instinct reaction. Biology is 'dedicated to life' and will 'hoodwink' you anyway it can to keep you aspiring to live.
Moving Meditation
I hear what you are saying about movement meditation, that it makes it easier to bring meditation into our everyday activities.
So, you can actually do the moving 'meditation' in any activity, from the time you wake up to bed. I do this quite a lot, especially when I not required by the particular activity to think (deliberate, plan, figure out..etc). That is why I love weeding so much, and cleaning dishes.
You Don't Love Art?
You don't like art? You just blow my mind...how could someone not treasure art? (You said you don't like anything man-made, or something like that.) I so enjoy you blowing away some of the things I just don't question. It's en-lightening/lightens me up.
I think (feel really) of it this way... nature as it is, reality as it is, whether pristine wilderness or just litter on the street holds for me unfathomable mystery and wonder... IF I am 'tuned' in. I think our attraction to 'art' lie in the fact that we are not connected to nature as a rule, and 'art' helps connect us. The particular 'art' that we're drawn to mirrors who we are within. Our attraction to something reflects that which we 'feel' we are lacking within. The same process as when one gets hungry. The sense of 'emptiness' draws you to food. The type of food you are drawn to similarly reflects that which you 'need'. Of course this food phenomena is all instinct based and often doesn't serve us well in civilization. The 'art' phenomena while based on the same 'balance' principle, is spawned by our mental / emotional state.
Another aspect of 'art', but also of myth and knowledge in general, is that is narrows reality down to a bite size chunk that we can digest. Simply said such gives us a bias so we don't have to face reality in its awesome breadth and depth. All 'tastes' fall into this limiting category, music, literature, politics, religion, ... you name. The Tao Te Chin puts it well...
Ch. 12
The five colours make man's eyes blind;
The five notes make his ears deaf;
The five tastes injure his palate;
Riding and hunting
Make his mind go wild with excitement;
Goods hard to come by
Serve to hinder his progress.
Therefore the sage is
For the belly,
Not for the eye.
Therefore he discards the one and takes the other.
Guilt
My need to be 'good' and my guilt if I'm not probably is a reflection of my Catholic upbringing, too.
I think it is instinctive, but the Catholic upbringing gave 'form' to the instinct. You would still have that emotional 'ghost' around you even if you were born in the stone age. But, it would not be such a alienating emotion in that intimate tribal setting.
Tao Debunks Tao
You also said: 'What is different with Taoist rationalization is that they aim to debunk themselves. This is quite unusual in the realm of human thought (of which I'm aware anyway).' Do you mean somewhere in the Tao Te CHing, it debunks itself? Where?
Chapter 1, the first two sentences. Also, off the tip of my mind..."exterminate the sage and the people will benefit a hundred fold", and "he who speaks does not know, he who speaks does not know". That last one took me 20+ years to know, understand, accept and embrace. How many religions, or followers or leaders alike, would admit their words were but reflections of their ignorance?
Meditation
So, always the answer is to stay in the present moment and be mindful.
Meditation in motions is very helpful to this 'task'. Sitting meditation has a drawback in that it lacks motion. It is in the 'motion' of our lives that we tend to 'lose it'. If Tai Chi doesn't work out for you, just 'walking' meditation would be worth a try. Maybe 'cutting carrots' meditation as well. It has to be a 'no brainer' kind of activity, i.e., one that dosn't require figuring out anything. The benefit of the Tai Chi type action is that it uses large (whole body) and small (limbs etc) movements. You can make up your own Tai Chi, for its not the particular movement that is important. It is the, to quote the Tao Te Ching, "let your wheels move only along old ruts" type of movement where your mind can flow with and sink into the moment as it floats on by.
Looking Deeper, What Do We Find?
Below is what the notion of "Looking deeper" stirred up in my sleeping mind last night....
Our thought on what the world is, our world view is the 'reality' which matches our mood - our deeper emotional sense of things. Basically our fears and needs, to put a label on it. Thought it is deeper than that, beyond description, but fear and need are simple generalizations which symbolize what I'm pointing to.
So what we perceive to be true is true for who we are. We rationalize a reality for ourselves which matches our personality and mood. It's personal. Being completely relative to our own makeup, all world views can be picked apart by another persons world view... and visa versa. We conjure up the necessary rationalization to 'blow apart' the other persons view.
This is why the Taoist bottom line discounts ALL names, thinkings, thoughts, categories, and knowledge. In the Taoist view it is all mumbo jumbo gibberish which blends together into the 'mysterious sameness'.
For myself, I look at it (words, thoughts, etc) as a means for social connection / interaction / communication, just like plants use chemicals to communicate, dogs use smell, we use language. There is no more reality in the thoughts we have than in the smells we smell. They stimulate us for sure, but beyond that, hold no higher position than a plants molecular reality. That view is a real 'come down' from how we tend to regard our 'superior' position on the tree of life.
Language's only real purpose is social. The content is relative, transient and most often contradictory at some level, which makes it irrelevant at some level. We cling tightly to beliefs however, just as a person might cling to a diamond (which is just carbon and holds no special place in nature). Being dependent on our beliefs we are unable to see them for the self serving gibberish which they really are.
The gibberish which matches a wide swath of a population's mood will become the paradigm of the culture for that era. The people will adopt the rationalization, as it becomes instilled in them (brain washed) from birth. For a few hapless people, like me, who lose 'faith' in the current paradigms (and any other ones as well, eventually) end up with a 'Taoist like' world view which neutralizes rationalizations with rationalizations - kind of like the 'desires not to desire' of Buddhism and Taoism. What is different with Taoist rationalization is that they aim to debunk themselves. This is quite unusual in the realm of human thought (of which I'm aware anyway).
The 'correlation process' just takes that a step further with a kind of cold unpoetic ruthless simplicity. Ha, no wonder it doesn't appeal to anyone! All rationalization only carries you away from the moment into illusion. In the end, the only 'life meaning' lies in the moment. Any thing - any 'way' - that can get a person's mind there, return you there "is valued by the empire", to quote the Tao Te Ching.
Now, a final irony... When I'm busily rationalizing away here, sorting out and jotting down yet another angle/solution to the puzzle - the mystery - I'm in the moment to a certain extent. But, it may be more of a social 'moment', i.e., I'm connecting with 'me, myself, and I' through the rationalizations I'm juggling around... with the added bonus of a sense of social connection to you, to whom I'm writing this.
But, it is still all rationalization and so not as 'in the moment' as the silence of mind, and being still and rationally quiet. Of course, that's our problem. This big old brain makes it hard to return to, and rest in, 'mysterious sameness'.
Laying Preconceptions Aside
Thank you once again for reminding me and clearing up my confusion. I just lose my understanding of what you said when someone says we should be this and not that. I go into a spin.
That is where the value of the Taoist view comes in handy, if you agree with it. Some examples,
Ch. 81 Truthful words are not beautiful; beautiful words are not truthful. Good words are not persuasive; persuasive words are not good. He who knows has no wide learning; he who has wide learning does not know.
Ch.2 Therefore the sage keeps to the deed that consists in taking no action and practices the teaching that uses no words.
Ch. 23 To use words but rarely Is to be natural.
Ch. 43 The teaching that uses no words, the benefit of resorting to no action, these are beyond the understanding of all but a very few in the world.
Ch. 5 Much speech leads inevitably to silence. Better to hold fast to the void.
and finally the best one of all....
Ch. 56 One who knows does not speak; one who speaks does not know.
So, the more solidly you sense the truth of these notions, the less any, and I mean ANY, words from what ever source will move you off your center. Personally, I just chalk up what we say, the words we use to express our world view, is nothing more than a refection of what we feel we are lacking in. Our emotional reality pushes the mind to rationalize a view which make sense to our emotional reality (which I suppose it the same thing as the 'sub-consciousness' which the psychologists refer to). That is it. Nothing that can be put into word is true in the deepest sense of that word. The words are relative to the particular individuals reality. Now, a friend of mine here will say such a statement is paradoxical, i.e., "Nothing that can be said is true". I shall again quote the Tao Te Ching, "Straightforward words, Seem paradoxical" (Ch. 78).
I think one reason we have difficulty 'buying' the Taoist notion of the insignificance of words to know what is true, is that we don't wish to give up the 'importance' of our own rationalizations. To really feel that other peoples words are simple reflections of their needs and fears really requires that I accept that the same is true of me. It is very humbling!
True Compassion?
I see people around me 'acting as if' they are truly compassionate and I see them as projecting that on to me...that I should act that way too. I discount their caring because I believe it is just their need to be liked and accepted and they don't truly care about anyone except maybe their closest relationships.
Another helpful thing for me is seeing all the gyrations we go through as based in tribal instinct. The need to conform to one's tribe (or what passes for that in civilized circumstances) is a deep and driving force. Just like all the other animals on the planet, we vie for acceptance and ascendance (power), and we go through myriad gyrations as that plays out over our lives. So, seeing that I am no different than the ants crawling up my wall today allows my to withdraw from most of this social 'competition'. It is also very humbling.
Trusting Your Experience
I own that I am still very self-centered and hope one day, by continued meditation, my heart will open more and the fullness will spill out to others. The Buddha said to trust your own experience. I like that because I find I can't trust anything but!
Amen! The path, more than meditation perhaps, is self honesty. Seeing ourselves as we are is difficult. We tend to see a projection, shaped by the paradigm of our times and driven by our fears and needs. So, how does one see through that 'crap' into one's original nature? I think only by discounting all human perception, deeds, and 'intelligence' as nothing more than the rantings and ravings of monkeys with brains too big for their britches. If you withdraw trust from the paradigm, you are a little freer to see things as they are... that 'mysterious sameness'. For me, this process is a 24/7 'meditation', to one degree or another.
Should?
I am struggling with this at a pretty deep level...it keeps coming up. I wonder what that means, if anything. By "it" I mean thinking I SHOULD be good and kind as opposed to nuturing the connection to others and allowing compassion to surface (like you said).
Your thoughts of SHOULD are driven by your instinctive social nature. But, it can't function in as balanced a manner as it would if you were surrounded 24/7 by a group of tribe mates you spend you life with, from birth to death. In civilization we are, compared to that ancestral condition, ALONE (even though we are married and have children, friends, etc.). Knowing the cause, this cause, of your dis-ease may bring you some peace and detachment. It does for me anyway.
Words Get In The Way
I know! True compassion is not a destination that I will arrive at when I have meditated long enough.....compassion is always there after the clouds of mind have parted and all I need to do is become aware of it. Aware of the big blue sky.
But tomorrow I will forget all this. Am I stupid? Do I have Alzheimer's? Somewhere, I do not want to know this. Perhaps I can remember to be simple, like my dog
That is why it is best to stop relying on words, all words... compassion, love, hate, anger... good, bad... it is all non-sense. Well, once you see/feel it as all non-sense, then it won't lay hold of you so much. The ideal is to forget what you know, and remember in the moment, what you feel. When the mind plays its little 'ditchs', you take them with many grains of salt for you know, deep down, it is all bull shit. And, I do mean ALL. So now my friend would say, "even what you are saying...that is paradoxical and nonsensical". Nevertheless, it works!
That is really the issue I think. What works best. That is all we are ever doing really anyway. Searching for and/or fabricating what works best.
Jumping Off
If there is no connectedness, meet you at the Golden Gate bridge and we can all jump together!
No no, don't jump of the bridge. Jump off your mind! The human problem is that the definitions, the words, like "connectedness" reflect our disconnected mental state brought about by the brains ability to categorize sensory experience. It works great for making tools, remembering stuff, being cleaver and plans, but is a barrier to feeling 'one with all'. The price we pay.
I feel that how we (people) perceive the world is nothing more than a reflection of who we are, our fears and needs. Someone said that I need to "look deeper". I must admit that I'm not in control of how I look. I simply report on what I observe. The most accurate example of my observation can be found in my correlation technique. Compared to that, everything else I say is, and will always be, just gibberish.
What is Compassion is Good And Evil are the 'Same'?
You say that 'good' and 'evil' are 2 sides of the same coin. So what inspires us to be compassionate, generous, gentle, etc., all the good stuff? If we accept all these qualities as they are without judgement, wouldn't we be in a lot of trouble? This question always comes back to me. Does the Tao say that if we follow the way and are natural, that we will naturally be wise?
In a Taoist world view, good and evil produce each other. Acknowledge the one and bingo you'll have the other. There is no 'good' nor 'evil' in nature. Thus, it is our mind set, our imaginary world created by our brain, that conjures up this 'vicious circle'. It is an illusion. Of course we need to play in this field of illusion in order to speak, think, and right now for me, write to you.
Well, back again; its the next day and I just came in for a little rest from gardening. Boy, when spring/summer comes, it comes with a vengeance! So, planning, pulling, planting, pruning, puttering, and well thats all the words I could think of off hand that begin with P.
So what inspires us to be compassionate? I don't think compassion is something you can invoke by choice. It is an inevitable experience which comes from becoming aware of 'more' and feeling connection. Like the old Yoga saying, "Thou art that". When you feel that compassion comes as naturally as sweat from working (as I wipe my sweat away). I feel those other qualities, "generous, gentle" come via the same route (actually are part and parcel of compassion, or visa versa). I find, however, that we often tend to define compassion and such as a reflection of what we want and what we fear. A tornado tearing through town is not seen as compassionate or gentle by those whose town is being ripped apart. However, in the natural way of things it is. A cow caught in the tornado doesn't define the tornado as being cruel or kind, it just deals with it. We tend to define, label and in doing so create the antithesis of our judgment.
I'm not sure what you meant by "If we accept all these qualities as they are without judgment, wouldn't we be in a lot of trouble?" Qualities being what? Nevertheless, if we were able to actually accept things as they are we (our species) would find life an awfully lot simpler, much as the cow does.
Your last question has the answer tucked in it. That is to say, if you "are natural", you are "wise", and visa versa. Our folly (lack of wisdom) is brain induced illusion, where the world we see is the reflection of our expectations and not the world as it actually exists in the moment. Our 'named' (categorized / labeled) reality is an artificial picture spawned by what we desire and what we fear, and shaped by the words we use to believe what we feel. Odd, yes? We are so locking inside our defined world that we can not but rarely glimpse what lies beyond our belief. And when we do we have no words to describe it so we resort to makeshift notions like God, spiritual, love, pure, and so on.
Well, I'm all rested and ready to get back to work. Thinning out raspberry bushes which should have done in January. Tomorrow we're driving down toward King City to get 4 ducklings (day olds which make for good imprinting). This time of year is so lovely with all the green-ness!
Oh, a word about the Cherokee story... The whole thing is based on the notion of free will, i.e., that we have control and know what the hell we are doing. As I'm sure I've said before, I see no evidence that this is so. Yet, we certainly need to believe that it is so, and so spin stories to support the myth of choice. Until, we as a species give up that fantasy and face ourselves as we actually are, what hope do we ever have of returning to some measure of natural balance? I say 'some measure' because we are burdened with this big brain that will always 'bite' us. Part of the price we pay for enjoying our brains advantages.
Biology Keeps it Nice and Simple
Thinking it's biology is so much simpler than analyzing everything. I just want to keep it simple.
I've found to that nothing works always. Although, knowing it is just biology takes a lot of the analysis out of the mix and that can lift a lot of the burden. Still, suffer we must. It really comes down to 'dropping our demands' of what is to be. And, no amount of will power helps. In fact, it requires just the opposite of 'will power'.
Watching The Oscars
I came home last night to the Oscars. It seemed very strange to me how we honor beauty, wealth and illusion. But I do like to see the gowns.
Well, there you go. I think "strange" (as with all perception) is in the eye of the beholder. Thus, seeing "strange" reflects our own inner dynamics. How we interpret what we see is symptomatic of our needs and fears, as I'm sure I've rattled on about. A great example of this occurred Sunday morning when I woke up. I felt such DEEP depression that I had to figure it out. Here is what I noticed IN REAL TIME, when I stopped thinking - just let my mind go silent - I felt 'almost' perfectly fine. When I thought, every thought that came to mind (and most of mine are philosophical in nature) I would feel terrible. It is as if my underlying 'mood' , emotional biochemical reality was coloring my thoughts 'depressed and hopeless'. But it was the combination that was the problem. Without thought, I felt 'not bad', just slow and empty I suppose.
This tells me how 'mushy' the whole process of perception really is. What ever our 'mood' is will color how we feel/interpret our thoughts or what we see. Oh, and those thoughts that brought me so down were no different than at other times. It wasn't the thoughts, nor the 'mood', but the combination of both of them. That fascinates me.
The Devils in the Doing
I think the trick is to love whatever is happening!
Alas, the devil is in the doing. Like Mother Theresa's quote: If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other.
Thoughts and words are easy (way too easy). Biology and circumstance hurl them down to reality. I think that if our species ever fully accepted that fully we might actually make some slight headway. And I mean FULLY. We saw a teaching company video on human neuro biology. The scientist did a great job pointing out how we 'tick'. Then, at the end of the video, he made a short personal plea/statement which was heart felt but completely contradicted his science. Very ironic which I ascribe to our 'window mind' ability. We look our this window and see/know/think this, and moments later look out that window and see/know/think that (which is often at odds with what is seen from 'this' window).
Are We Not A Part of Nature?
Disconnection from nature a good thing???
Yes in the sense that a drunk has to reach bottom before reversing direction. The same principle applies to all.
I still don't get it. Aren't we part of nature ourselves? If we are to live simply, then don't we need to see that we are natural beings? I bet you are talking about returning again, that feeling.
We are certainly a "part of nature". But we don't realize it as we get lost in our mind. We are 'drunk on thought'. So, we have to hit rock bottom and realized that our 'problem' is due to our sense of disconnection from nature. That if we 'look to nature's way' we will feel more a part of nature, and less isolated in our 'civilized human superiority'. It is all perceptual.
Compassion = patience = Love
I was thinking that love brings compassion. Like I love my dogs and I have compassion for them if they are suffering or even if they are happy. I wasn't talking about love as sex drive which is anything but patient!
But the love and compassion that are directed toward what the "I" favor is favoritism. It is conditional. That is not saying that it's wrong or bad mind you. There is no such thing as wrong or bad in nature! So, these conditional love and compassion feelings are rooted in our social biology, are tribal, and the cause of joy, but also sorrow. When love is directional and conditional, there is always its opposite... disdain and rejection. (again not that this is bad or wrong, it is part of animal nature). Our human problem is we are hypocrites about it. We want one without the other. We want peace without war, which is not possible. You have to surrender one to lose the other. Attachment to one strengthens the other.
I love this:
Patience=mindfulness=calm=rest=comfort=sleep=quiet=love=eternity=death=connection=compassion=universal
Then you do sense how they all 'correlate' in a loose murky kind of way, eh?
Being Yourself
I have seen bikers cry.
Oh, of course. It is just the costume. Like a banker who wears a suit to work. The suit is not him. And given the 'safe' opportunity to be himself, he will.
Pure Love?
I'm questioning, what about Carl's love for his boys? Is that self-centered? That seems like a pure form of love, but I suppose you need them as they need you.
For me true love is non-directional. Accordingly, that makes 'true love' impure, not pure. Dirty, messy, and obscure, not clean, tidy and clear. I often experience both versions, the instinct based tribal interdependent 'kin' love and the universal omni directional love when I 'focus' on my kids or the ducks. I only am capable of feeling the true version when I see homeless on the street or macho punks pushing their way around. BUT, I can only feel this true love if and when I slow down, stop and surrender, so it is a hit and miss kind of love feeling.
Actually, Christ's idea about "love your enemies" speaks to that 'true' love. Love your friends is strongly based in the biology of interdependent need, family, tribe. Of course, the biological version comes naturally. The 'true' version probably would more if the biological version wasn't so strong. They are opposite in many ways, though not always mutually exclusive. Oh well, more irony.
It is Okey, Really!
There is a deep comfort in the feeling that everything just is as it is.
Oh yes. All we have to do is convince ourselves that it is! And that is where biology keeps hoodwinking us to get us to stir the pot.
Need is Not Love
About your comments on love. You said " Human love for particulars is projection of one's need, is self centered and narrow." In my experience, when I have fallen in love, it felt like a pure, wonderful energy located in my heart, but it doesn't last.
When you feel patience you are feeling the opposite of biological urges. Compassion = patience.
So, everything is impermanent like the Buddhists say. Love is just one of the pure blessings of being human and I'm for enjoying it while it's happening, knowing it's not going to last!
The 'urge' type of love does not last. The patient type of love lasts forever. When you feel that you are brushing up against eternity.
So you are right. When you get past all the stuff of being human, the only thing that is left is awareness. Do you think pure awareness is beyond duality?
Yes! and we all know that 'beyond' awareness. However, because we are so word oriented (cling to them actually) and because eternal consciousness has no name, that we don't 'think' it exists, certainly to the extent that it does. What extent does it exist within us?.... I estimate about 99.9999999999999%. I suppose it is because we are so habituated to words/language that the vast silence of our eternal original simple consciousness frightens us. ... It's ironic, of course.
In Chogyam Trungpa's book, he talks about drala. It's supposed to be an energy beyond duality that's everywhere, but then he talks about drala leaving if you have a messy house. It was really hokey.
That brings to mind why I'm Taoist... words are regarded as merely surface 'creatures' essentially without 'true' meaning. I guess that's completely opposite to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic world view where words hold truth, especially if they come out of a bible. In any case, something I find helpful is to 'interpret' things folks say. Especially if someone is truly sincere in what they are saying, I can 'interpret' they attempt to convey what they are sensing into a conceptual form that makes sense to me. In all cases though, what we say reflects what lies within us and is symptomatic of our 'problem'. So, it all has very deep meaning, though often not what the speaker thinks he is conveying. My best example of this is when I first realized the tough biker types were actually reflecting their soft and insecure inner experience. Their way of counterbalancing that insecurity was to show a tough macho exterior. I find this principle applies to everything and everyone.
So, by this same principle, males are female within, and females are male within. The outside is opposite the inside, which makes the whole perfectly balanced... in an imbalanced kind of way...
Now, you can't take this principle and actually pick apart a particular person. As you look for detail, the big picture vanishes. As it vanishes you lose perspective and end up knowing nothing, which ironically is what you know when you have total perspective. More irony. Must be my mood today, or is it mode.
Off to do the housework. I practice mindful house cleaning and really enjoy it.
Indeed, that is the only way to truly en-JOY anything, in my view. Same as I said above about love. Patience=mindfulness=calm=rest=comfort=sleep=quiet=love=eternity=death=connection=compassion=universal
Of course our biology... instincts... don't let us get to carried away in that realm while we are alive. So, off we go rushing about... Oh, tea time!
We believe our own illusion
We tend to rationalize our emotional way with words to convince ourselves that our world view (driven by our emotional state of course) is reality. We believe our own illusion. Breaking language into active-passive categories forces you to face your emotion driven rationalized hypocrisy and self contradictions. Wow that's a mouthful. We are so lost in our mind's 'flip flopin', but we don't realize it for the 'flip flopin' we do feels good.. for the moment. But, it makes us self dishonest and so is in the long run counter wisdom and contentment.
Can you give me a real-life example of this? I'm getting lost in the words.
Think of the statement "I love chicken", "I love you", "all you need is love", "the love of Jesus", Or... "I hate chicken", "I hate you",
We use words so easily. They slide right off the tongue and express the emotions we feel at the moment. But, without really knowing / pondering what we really mean by the word, the word meaning changes to suit our emotional place at the time. It is confusing.
Okey take the word "freedom". What is that really? How is the "freedom" to choose your own life's path cause one's "anxiety" and "pain". How is an "exciting" and "trauma" connected. We move through life as the saying goes "we want to have our cake and eat it too". No where does this occur more than in our thought processes and how we view life and the world. That's not much of a real world example. I'll let my subconscious work on it.
Is Fear Like Love?
I was thinking over Fear. Sometimes we think of the reaction which fear causes in us as the 'cause'.
I think I know what you mean here. It's like love in my experience. The first time I fell in love, I realized that the love was inside me and the boyfriend just triggered it to come out. The feeling of love was an inward thing, even though the trigger was outside. Then I fell in love again and it was all love from the same source. Is that what you mean with fear?
Ah, love. I don't think love for someone in particular is actually love, in the deepest meaning of that word (if we are to give deep meaning to any words, that is). Human love for particulars is projection of one's need, is self centered and narrow. That's not saying it's bad mind you. It's just what it is.
Correlations... Huh?
So, the correlations. I get the introduction. When I get to the first correlation exercises (active/passive columns), I'm asking why are we doing this again? There are antonyms...so what! I see the words are active and passive and that makes sense to me. Is it to undermine my belief that words are reality?
We tend to rationalize our emotional way with words to convince ourselves that our world view (driven by our emotional state of course) is reality. We believe our own illusion. Breaking language into into active-passive categories forces you to face your emotion driven rationalized hypocrisy and self contradictions. Wow that's a mouthful. We are so lost in our mind's 'flip flopin', but we don't realize it for the 'flip flopin' we do feels good.. for the moment. But, it makes us self dishonest and so is in the long run counter wisdom and contentment.
Well, now that I got that off my chest... I was thinking over Fear. Sometimes we think of the reaction which fear causes in us as the 'cause'. I think of root Fear as awe, mystery, death. Dark and deep and empty. So, is fear our feeling of this awesome mysterious unknown-ness or our frantic urge to escape it? As I think of it as the former, I link it with those former qualities - mystery, unknown, deep, empty, dark, death. But, if one were to think of fear as the anxiety and parasympathetic nervous systems reaction to the experience of that 'void', then fear would link (correlate to) up with desire, need, action, competition, life, awake, stimulated, and so on. So, you see by really pondering what you actually mean by the word fear, it takes you inward into facing your most private world view. Something people never do in a systematic way as far as I know. Correlations are a tool to help one do that, at least they helped me.
So, my relationship-reality is based on my beliefs, my personal concepts of reality, and those are totally based on words, words that are 'the finger pointing at the moon" and not the moon itself.
yes
But then, why the word exercises? The key sentences seem to me to be "you are consolidating the meaning of the contrasting words with which you think about life" (reading all the active or passive words vertically 'define each other') and "returning them to their active or passive essence sets up" the ability to "reconsider those preconceptions you have held..." I'm not clear on how this works.
Mainly you ponder the top level of 'mysterious sameness' between all the active words. And then the same between all the passive words. As you come to FEEL the 'sameness' they share you will then be set up to FEEL the 'sameness' between the active and passive... i.e., their co-generative nature. You may understand rationally what I'm saying here, but to deeply experience the reality of their 'sameness' is what puts deep pause between you and all your projections (than otherwise possible maybe).
Maybe I can muddle around with the fear that arises that I am the child to you, Carl, and you are the parent, because I am always taking and you are always giving.
Ah, now, not really. That "giving" and "taking" share a 'sameness' which, when FELT, dissolve the disconnection they model. Anyway, don't hurry the correlations. I spent 6 months, 24 hours a day (yes even as I slept) moving through them, and then more years... . and even now. Stay with the mystery patiently. No worries.
Which brings to mind AA, again. We sponsor newcomers and help them through the steps. I asked my first sponsor why in the world she would want to spend this much time and energy on helping me (she hardly knew me) and she said "because helping you is keeping me sober." Oh!
Yes, same for me in the sense that keeping close to how things are, rather than being led with how my instinct wants me to see the world, keeps me sober. After all, we are all drunk with our mind-made illusions of our selves and life in general. So, let me be sober! So keep at the correlations as much as suits you and ask away anything that comes to mind... again no worries.
Maintaining Balance
"The only way to 'resolve' the problem of the hole is to weaken it by continually embracing it (it is like maintaining balance, moment to moment,... as we're able)"
Yes. I can feel this. The Course in Miracles says that fear, not hate, is the opposite of love...seems that way to me. What if we could love our fear? Whoa!
Attraction vs. Aversion. Push vs. Pull. Need vs. Love.
I think I'd still correlate Aversion, Pull, Love on one side with Attraction, Push, Need on the other. But, it is a fuzzy thing. Oh, Fear being on the same side as Aversion and opposite to Attraction and Need. People often use the word Love when they are really talking about Need. Placing Love with Fear may feel very odd. But, it pondering may bring you closer to the mystery of Love.
I like the idea of balance as something done every moment, like riding a bicycle. I was thinking of balance as a goal and once you achieve it you are done, but it's never like that really.
Which is so helpful to realize I found.
"For me, "your empty heart is full" refers to theprinciple that only my loss can you gain. Only by losing self can youreturn to natural original 'self'. Simple, only by letting go can youreceive."
This sounds like the prayer of St. Francis, that only by dying can you awaken to eternal life, or some such (AA's call this the 11th step* prayer!). I like when you quote Jesus--I tend to be closed minded about christianity (yikes! Just like I think THEY are!), but for some reason I love to hear that all the religions agree. It must be true!
Yes. It's just people that mess things up... politics you know.
I think maybe the correlations are working on me because many opposites are colliding right now.
In the end, if working on them makes you hesitant and tentative about reality, then they are working. The more you struggle to make them make sense the more mysterious it gets.
Filling the Void?
So you are saying the hole was created by civilization, but that the hole is the void in Taoism? So is it our experience of that hole/void, our perception, that causes the feeling of being lost and disconnected?
The hole is created by the mind. Civilization make it bigger. Religion, Taoism included, is an attempt to 'fill that hole'. The Taoist view is that you can't fill a hole that the mind created (without a lobotomy). The only way to 'resolve' the problem of the hole is to weaken it by continually embracing it (it is like maintaining balance, moment to moment,... as we're able). Yes, our brain induced duality places a perceptual hole between us and what is. Our emotions don't 'understand', and feel out of sorts. We are perpetually driven by our emotions to do this or that to reconnect. But, it is all futile. More doing will not reconnect. Only less doing will. Not less doing, as in actual activity. All life is active. Less belief that doing is the solution.
In my everyday walk around life, I sometimes experience the hold/void fearfully, but when I meditate I experience it lovingly..it's like what Shambhala teaches: your empty heart is full. Sounds like one of your correlations, doesn't it?
Yes, the void is that fearful place we all run to action to get away from... void = death. For me, "your empty heart is full" refers to the principle that only my loss can you gain. Only by losing self can you return to natural original 'self'. Simple, only by letting go can you receive.
The Hole
I agree with you that people are driven by a feeling that something's missing. I used to feel like there was a big hole in the middle of me-- a very uncomfortable feeling. I tried to fill it with alcohol, but that just made the hole bigger. I'm in awe that possibly your children have never felt that...do you think?
I think the tribal upbringing has made that hole, if it exists, as small as possible considering modern circumstances. The hole is a direct unintended consequence of civilization and the loss of intimate tribal life.
Our mind is the origin of that 'hole'. Specifically the 'yin yang' nature of thought puts a hole in reality that we yearn to leap across to 'the other side'. This hole developed as our mind / language ability progressed, so it is 50-100,000 years in the making. Now, civilization just widens it by firming up, through 'education', the disconnecting 'yin yang' view of life. Civilization solved our physical needs but exasperated our emotional ones, i.e., that hole related sense of disconnection.
'Void' in Taoism is that hole. This 'void' is the mystery 'one' to embrace, or as you say "sit with", until the 'one' and the 'many' share that 'mysterious sameness'.
Now, back to the rain!
Anger
I wanted to ask you: do you get angry? What do you do? I get irritated which is little anger and I don't like it at all.
I get irritated a bit anyway most every day around something. Anger only comes my way once every decade or so. I just let it flow through me really, knowing that its like a passing storm. It helps me to know the it is passing, just life a cold, or feeling down in the dumps. Like your teacher says, just being with it is the best way to dissolve it. Animals are so good at doing that because they can't 'think' of an alternative. We imagine that we can escape and so waste a lot of futile nerve energy / time wishing the impossible.
The Ego
By lower position, valley, ravine, does it mean humility? Is it meant to stump the ego? Is it the opposite of pridefulness? (I know you are going to say that humility is just the other side of pride or arrogance.)
Our survival instinct give us an exagerated sense of importance. That combined with out big brain's ability to create the illusion of a self really give us the sense of imbalance. I think this sense of imbalance goes back 50-100,000 years. Civilization and all the 'bull' it generates to keep the little monkeys cooperating in huge groups dose not help matter. So, yes, those word all correlate to humility. But, to really appreciate the depth of meaning of humility, it is helpful to have other words which lend the same feeling, i.e., correlate.
The "other side" aspect comes more into play when you really beleive you are 'Somebody'. The more you give to the illusion of self, the more defensive and protective we become out of fear of 'loss of face', 'humiliation', ... death of self, if you will. As you embrace the lower position and know down to your core it is an eternal place, that neutralizes its "other side", the illusion of self / importance.
Water
When I don't react to difficulties in life, I can only describe the feeling as being like water. I guess I mean neutral. But now I am thinking how water seeks the lowest ground. Is it like that? It's almost like returning.
yes
Marriage
I liked what you said about men and women. I'm so glad I'm married. Do you have any thoughts on why over half of marriages fail?
Oh boy! the fact that our culture has made 'self growth', 'be all YOU can be', 'just do it', 'freedom', and 'independance' to be virtues has not helped any. Our country was founded on an idealistic falacy, i.e., 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'. This puts self before tribe/family. This combined with wealth give opportunity to split and no reason (economically) to stay.
Ignorance
Just read your message to Guest re Trading Spouses, WE ARE ALL DUMB AND IGNORANT.
Thank you thank you thank you. One of my most driving fears is that people will find out how dumb and ignorant I am. I will let that phrase rattle around my brain and see if some suffering is relieved.
At 28 I knew everything and I know less and less every year. Still, the fear persists. "What you resist, persists."
It is all quite a struggle. I think our survival instinct drives us to protect ourselves. Also, this is a result of how truly unconnected we feel. The tribal intimacy and resulting trust is lost so we all try to protect our backs. What a pickle we put ourselve in with the whole civilization experiment. And it is an experiment, nature's experiment.
Anyway, this is what is most special about 'being a Taoist'. All you need to be is yourself and 'take the lower position'. All other human paths put one between a rock and a hard place. Anyway, chapter 28 says it well. Note the parts I bolded... Of course it is all easier said than done, but when you acknowledge the way, then you've begun the journey, or to quote, "A journey of a thousand miles, Starts from beneath one's feet." It is that first step that is so important, the 'grasp' that I referred to yesterday about learning.
Know the male
But keep to the role of the female
And be a ravine to the empire.
If you are a ravine to the empire,
Then the constant virtue will not desert you
And you will again return to being a babe.
Know the white
But keep to the role of the black
And be a model to the empire.
If you are a model to the empire,
Then the constant virtue will not be wanting
And you will return to the infinite.
Know honour
But keep to the role of the disgraced
And be a valley to the empire.
If you are a valley to the empire,
Then the constant virtue will be sufficient
And you will return to being the uncarved block.
When the uncarved block shatters it becomes vessels.
The sage makes use of these and becomes the lord over the officials.
Therefore the greatest cutting Does not sever.
The Group
[Re: Sounded like a solution to the core problems that civilization causes, i.e., no longer part of intimate close knit tribal experience that we evolved under for 100,000's years.]
Exactly. That's it. I sit in a meeting and think how the whole of us is so much more than the sum of our parts. The group is more than just all the individuals. Maybe the "more" is the tribal connection?
YES! and if we, as a culture, realize this we may at least mitigate it a little? We've got to know the source of our deepest problem before we have any hope of that.
Crazy Taoists?
["Buddhists are known for being that way... Taoist are known for being'crazy'. So you see, if I called myself a Buddhist I'd have a toughtime living up to the image, but as a Taoist... no sweat!"]
: D too funny. That means that however attracted to Taoism I am, I better continue with the Shambhala stuff. Then I could be open, tender, and crazy. Sounds like a good combination.
Yep, I was told by a Chinese fellow who gave me a ride in Malaya soon after I had landed there from Australia (thus very early into my journey) that many Chinese were both Taoist, Buddhist and Christians. I am in spirit, though I'd not call myself a Christian either for the same 'image' problem...
Stupid Comments?
I thought my comment was stupid so I'm happy to hear you say that!
There is no such thing as stupid... well, maybe young and foolish. But then we all have to go through that phase to grow up, so, no as usual the notion of stupid is just a co-generated other side of the coid from 'smart'.
Higher and Lower Learning?
["Once I grasp a view rationally, I can grow to know itintuitively. Thisis the essence of 'higher learning' (i.e., humanlearning). The other, 'lower learning' is physical / emotional. Once Igrasp an action or behavior physically / emotionally, I can growto know it intuitively (reflexively). "]
I've experienced knowledge becoming internalized (I call it). By internalized I mean that the knowledge has been assimilated and is part of me. Is that what you mean by inituitive?
Yes, so that the knowing just bubbles up from the silent depths of your nature
Walking Intuitively
Can you give an example of something learned physicall/emotionally and then what it becomes when it's known intuitively?
walking, and other body coordination. This is the area you are entering with the Tai Chi, like a baby that is learning to 'walk'. It all comes naturally, and the wonderful thing is that you get to relive that 'baby' experience again as an adult, if you do a few minutes daily.