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Happiness is when you stop doing everything else?
Hi Carl, this is my first time on this site, and I've agreed with many things you've posted, but some post 20th century music is easy, and although I don't know you, and have only read a few of your posts here, I think you might like some classical stuff. Yes, I'm biased, I'm a music student and a classical pianist, and like you, (I think), I don't listen to a lot of what people would classify as 'popular' music (pop, rock, etc.), but if you listen to some contemporary classical music, I think you'll find that they regard silence as highly as you do. It's the moments in between the notes that make music beautiful.
(that having been said, a lot of it isn't as sociable as bluegrass...)
(that having been said, a lot of it isn't as sociable as bluegrass...)
Comments
That sounded good to me and I held that belief for a number of years, but now, after visiting this web site, I am beginning to think it is wishful thinking.
Any thoughts?
I have a feeling that, through practice, as my awareness increases and I can see more clearly what is going on in me, I can be more compassionate of what is going on in you...that mysterious sameness that Carl talks about becomes apparent. So that leads me to believe that my first statement is true. Through practice, you realize the connectedness of everything.
I guess the question boils down to: is our true nature that of an animal or that of a God? Or both!
(1) There's that dirty little six letter word again! One of civilization's 'tool' to keep huge populations in line. Small intimate organic tribal conditions have no need for 'should'.
(2) I think the 'problem' is that we see too clearly. Our preconception of what we 'should' see or feel inhibits what is naturally there all the time. That, and what must amount to our 'socialized rejection' of the natural animal we are. No sir! We need to see ourselves as different. We have sophistication, fine clothing, [chref=19]learning[/chref] and abundant [chref=65]cleverness[/chref],... blah blah blah. Thus, we are embarrassed by our farts and our body :oops: . Seeing ourselves as unique, we have a real problem being natural. It is very very curious. All I can say is that is all seems to stem from the deep sense of disconnection brought about by our brains ability to chop reality up into little pieces and the extinction of pre-agricultural intimate tribal conditions and the closer physical connection we had with earth, i.e., less comfort and security.
(3) We are connected,... de facto and period. Our problem is that we think we are not. Practicing to resolve this perceptual illusion (the problem) only empowers the illusion of disconnection. It is like music. Our family doesn't practice music (generally), we play it. It only becomes practice for us when we loose the spontaneity of the experience and start chasing a idealized version... something to the gained in the future. As we say in Yoga, don't try... do. Don't practice, play. Of course, this talk of 'practice vs. play' can also just be a semantics issue. You have to decide which it is. Because we are so goal oriented as a species, practice, more often than not, implies reaching beyond our moment to moment experence of life.
(4) If you look at perception as a reflection of what we need, then the notion of 'God' takes on a whole other dimension. The notion of 'God' being not something, but simply symbolic of something we feel missing within ourselves. Our view that there are animals and there are humans only exasperates our sense of disconnection and increases our need to have a 'God' to fall back on.
The essence of '[chref=56]mysterious sameness[/chref]' speaks to the illusion of difference that beguiles us. We have 'God' and we have 'Satan', Heaven and hell, wisdom and folly, compassion and ruthlessness. These are not of nature, but are simply manifestations of our [chref=18]cleverness[/chref] and the clever game we are playing with 'this' - what is. By dividing Nature up we become [chref=63]meddlesome[/chref], and succumb to the impression that we can conquer it. And we have, on a limited physical . But, we will go increasingly insane as we 'win the struggle' with Nature. The flip side of advantage is misfortune. In seeking one to the exclusion of the other we will become exponentially neurotic.
This is all especially difficult for us because we are just animals! Our innovative cleverness, powered by our big brain, is being steered (driven) by innate emotion. But, we haven't a clue of what is happening, of what we are doing, nor have we ever. No one is in charge... well except for 'God'
My goodness, there I go again. Give me a keyboard and a few minutes and the bull _ _ _ _ just flows. :roll:
2. Well, that's not been my experience. The increased awareness I get from meditating lets me see myself warts and all. I wish I only saw refined, lofty, above reproach character traits, but no. I see the needs and fears of me. It's quite humbling and I welcome the humility. I need all I can get of that (perhaps to balance my husband's complete lack of it! : D) ohmygod--I'm proud of my humility. That's one for the correlations.
I'm going to carve that in a rock somewhere. That's a wonderful quote, Carl. That whole paragraph you wrote is what I just can't seem to get. I cannot get it that one cannot talk about anything non-dualistic using language. So one cannot talk about it at all. So I guess if we can't use the words, we all should just hummmmmmm.
/~\
If you didn't have the preconception that "warts" were socially undesirable, you would be comfortable with the "warts and all". The preconceptions instilled in us as we became socialized into our native culture throughout childhood, become the civilized baggage we lug around throughout life. We 'learn' this is 'good' and that is 'bad'. There is no natural 'good' nor natural 'bad'. Our brain creates this duality, as a tool or survival, to manipulate the [chref=1]myriad creatures[/chref] - stuff. Civilization uses our mind's dualistic perception to keep us in line. "Do be good, kind and polite, don't be an animal! Bad boy, fix your hair, wash your hands and smile!". Yes dear. :oops:
I suppose meditation can be regarded as a journey. A step on that [chref=64]journey[/chref] is certainly becoming more aware of this baggage. Might not the next step be seeing the baggage as baggage, and not really your natural being - natural being is your original nature absent civilization's 'programing'. The paradigm which hold us, is that which we hold on to. Thus, mutually re-enforcing the illusion of self... 'I' am this, or not this, or that, or not that...
When 'I' believe anything, the anything which 'I' believe will re-enforce the illusion of self, i.e., Buddha's view: The illusion of self originates and manifests itself in a cleaving to anything. 'Meditation' can be an opportunity to poke a finger in the eye of your beliefs - anything you believe.
Hey, I think we've come full circle here....your natural being is when you stop doing everything else. Or, as you put it, seeing the baggage as baggage. The point in becoming more aware of baggage to to begin the process of letting it go. It is the clinging or resistance that causes the suffering.
Are we saying the same thing? I hope so. : D
Sure,... but only if we finished beating around the bush :!:
Hey, I finally was able to add a happy face. must restrain myself...
Pure must have impure as its root, just as [chref=39]the superior must have the inferior as root[/chref]. Thus, in our normal conscious experience [chref=41]ample virtue seems defective [/chref]. It is the nature of our mind to experience this duality. When, by whatever means, our mind can bring these opposites together in a realization of [chref=56]mysterious sameness [/chref] (oh, how I love that phrase), the opposites annilate each other - poof! The contention inherent in duality falls away and you see - if not become - the [chref=28]uncarved block[/chref].
Contentment lies in extinguishing the illusion of difference. How to go about this is the big question, eh? First, we must acknowledge that [chref=36]if we would have a thing shrink, we must first stretch it[/chref]. Well, our thinking mind is always 'stretching' itself somewhat, especially when faced with a conundrum. But, we tend to avoid the deeply serious conundrums, and stick to cross word puzzles. The profound conundrums push the thinking mind to its edges of sanity by challenging fondly held beliefs and biases... Yikes! Who wants to go there! :shock:
For example, when you realize that war and peace [chref=2]produce[/chref] each other, what do you do? How do you solve the 'problem' if the 'problem' and the 'solution' produce each other? What a mess. All that is left to do is [chref=48]less and less until[/chref]....? But, we are biologically driven to act, and to [chref=57]meddle[/chref]... just like I'm doing right now! Desiring 'the one' we shall get 'the other'. Round and round our words will go until we end in [chref=5]silence[/chref]...
Well, then, is this how you bring an end to suffering? It seems like if you could realize that pleasure and pain are the same, like you said, there would be complete contentment, there would be nothing to chase after, you would abide in the peace of mysterious sameness. This is something that you have experienced, I gather.
I tend to couch everthing you say in terms of Buddhism, huh?
One more thing: I have an earthy example of:
When an alcoholic drinks, the drink is the solution to all problems. It makes everything okay. Through the years, the alcohol becomes the problem, but it still is used as the solution. When the alcoholic finally realizes that the solution IS the problem, he or she might go get help. It takes a lot for that awareness to hit.
1) That is a good thing! Otherwise all the marbles would roll over into one corner. Constant purity... what an existence... no yin... only yang! :shock:
2) Flowing between the extremes - change - is life, not some idealized purity. Only by dropping our (my) idealistic struggle to "maintain" poise, [chref=65]is complete conformity realized[/chref]. In my view we (I) 'try too hard'. Trying too hard drowns out the [chref=64]easy[/chref]. Through our (my) preconceptions and resultant expectations we (I) become our (my) own worst enemy. The irony - by not struggling to maintain poise, I am actually more poised. For me, [chref=40]turning back[/chref] best describes the direction to 'go' (stay).
Believing that purity should remain pure, or that I should _(you fill in the blanks here with your favorite ideal)_ only makes matters worse.
This may come as a small surprise to you - but actually I do agree with your point!! So much that we do is a striving to find that perfect balance between all our worldly commitments - family, work, leisure - so that we can 'have it all' (whatever that means - I wouldn't want it all! I'm quite happy with what I've got)
We have a tendency to forget that when things stand still, they stagnate - and boy does that smell! It's a bit like people saying that they never have any doubts about anything - always strikes me as a bit mentally unbalanced - if you're always certain, you're always convinced you're right and this obviates the need for compassion, altruism and consideration for the other point(s) of view :!: