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On letting the Tao bring my love back to me
Hi guys.
I just signed up here this week, but so far, I've found reading your past discussions to be incredibly helpful to my understanding of the practice. I'm a new Taoist, so I'm really trying to get a proper handle on all of it, and so far, I'm learning new things, or rather, unlearning old things, every day, just as the Tao Te Ching promised. Usually, those kinds of assertions are exaggerations.
Anyway, to the point at hand. I'd like to talk a little about how I'm applying my new-found philosophy to my romantic life. Long story short, my fiancee left me back in october after seven years together. She's recently come back to me (this was my first experiment into wu wei, although I guess it's common knowledge that women will mostly likely come around if you simply ignore them for long enough. I dislike these parts of human nature that seem to necessitate us sometimes playing mind games).
So, where I'm going is this. While we were together, although we had a mostly loving everyday life, I had a problem with anger management. I would fly off the handle about ridiculous little things, screaming at her over nothing... I was never physically violent, but I've been told I'm terribly cutting in words when I want to be.
I'd been musing over this in light of getting back with her. While I've dealt with some of my personality flaws, you might say, depression, negativity and so on, I was concerned about the specific way in which the two of us interact with each other that sets off our bad sides so reliably. As a person who tries to believe in monogamy, the inevitability with which relationships collapse has always nagged at me.
And today, I figured it out. I believe. She's a very passive person, she's what you might call a natural Taoist. The more passively she behaved about worldly things, the more I would respond by becoming more and more "active", and in trying to coax activity from her, I was actually moving further away from my goal all the time. It seems so simple, therefore, that my response should be a passive one. In any problematic situation, if she's worried, I feel calm, and if I'm worried, she feels calm. Knowing this, if I move into the lower position (avoiding the phrase "the role of the female" for obvious contextual reasons), she will naturally response by becoming active.
I firmly believe the values I've learned in the TTC will help my relationship to be a healthy one. If I want to draw her near to me, I must take a step back. This will prevent her from feeling smothered. If I want her to do something, I must relinquish my control. If I stop trying to coax her into doing it, she'll realise for herself it must be done.
Although that didn't stop her sitting at home for six years without working, doing any housework or contributing to the household in any way. Hmm. Anyway, that's a story for another day, if at all. I'm just thinking in type.
I just signed up here this week, but so far, I've found reading your past discussions to be incredibly helpful to my understanding of the practice. I'm a new Taoist, so I'm really trying to get a proper handle on all of it, and so far, I'm learning new things, or rather, unlearning old things, every day, just as the Tao Te Ching promised. Usually, those kinds of assertions are exaggerations.
Anyway, to the point at hand. I'd like to talk a little about how I'm applying my new-found philosophy to my romantic life. Long story short, my fiancee left me back in october after seven years together. She's recently come back to me (this was my first experiment into wu wei, although I guess it's common knowledge that women will mostly likely come around if you simply ignore them for long enough. I dislike these parts of human nature that seem to necessitate us sometimes playing mind games).
So, where I'm going is this. While we were together, although we had a mostly loving everyday life, I had a problem with anger management. I would fly off the handle about ridiculous little things, screaming at her over nothing... I was never physically violent, but I've been told I'm terribly cutting in words when I want to be.
I'd been musing over this in light of getting back with her. While I've dealt with some of my personality flaws, you might say, depression, negativity and so on, I was concerned about the specific way in which the two of us interact with each other that sets off our bad sides so reliably. As a person who tries to believe in monogamy, the inevitability with which relationships collapse has always nagged at me.
And today, I figured it out. I believe. She's a very passive person, she's what you might call a natural Taoist. The more passively she behaved about worldly things, the more I would respond by becoming more and more "active", and in trying to coax activity from her, I was actually moving further away from my goal all the time. It seems so simple, therefore, that my response should be a passive one. In any problematic situation, if she's worried, I feel calm, and if I'm worried, she feels calm. Knowing this, if I move into the lower position (avoiding the phrase "the role of the female" for obvious contextual reasons), she will naturally response by becoming active.
I firmly believe the values I've learned in the TTC will help my relationship to be a healthy one. If I want to draw her near to me, I must take a step back. This will prevent her from feeling smothered. If I want her to do something, I must relinquish my control. If I stop trying to coax her into doing it, she'll realise for herself it must be done.
Although that didn't stop her sitting at home for six years without working, doing any housework or contributing to the household in any way. Hmm. Anyway, that's a story for another day, if at all. I'm just thinking in type.
Comments
Think of us a animals, not as humans, and the "mind games" vanish. Every thing you do will be seen to be natural. All animals play "mind games" in their attempts to either mate or eat. Too believe we are different is a symptom of our arrogance, i.e., thinking we are special, superior, and such.
The less you trust what you think, the less your assumption, agenda, and expectation will drive those emotions. They're bound to be there; that's your nature. But much, much less if you can manage to doubt what you think and judge 'out there'.
Try keeping a log of your daily life. See: Hatha Yoga Booklet . Download the PDF, Hatha Yoga: Principles and Precautions, and refer to page 8 for an example. Keeping a written track of what actually happen daily can be very enlightening.
You might also attempt to see this from a symptoms point of view. Your reaction is reflecting some fear you have, probably about being too passive. We tend to project our deepest fears onto those closest to us.
Yes, in principle. The only hitch here is time. Your impatience to let the natural process play out will be your greatest difficulty, if not your downfall. Patience is absolutely the most important factor in all relationships, whether with oneself, kids, plants, animals… everything.
Ah ha! That explains a lot. You should have said this at the top. ;-)
No work, no eat. The lack of a balanced quid pro quo is significant. I would guess your reactions are 'compensating' instinctively for this lack. That you need this type of relationship is a window into your nature (fears and needs). Looking into this aspect of your relationship should deepen your understanding. And with that, 'Right Action' (as Buddha called it) will follow naturally, inevitably.
Hmm... Obviously it's not that I want that type of relationship. It's the connection we have between the two of us, since we met, we've lived our lives around each other, as if always in contact, bonded together, I don't know, I'm not that articulate this evening, but it's another of those shadowy and indistinct things, I suppose. Maybe it's quantum entanglement (enjoyed the article you recommended on that, by the way. I'd trying to find an accessible article on quantum entanglement, everything I found seemed to be layers in equations).
It's a sticking point for me. Obviously the TTC would dictate (or rather, humbly suggest) that I don't regard her in any higher esteem than myself or any other. As Tyler Durden put it, "We're all part of the same decomposing garbage heap". A less elegant image than Lao Tzu would have chosen, but helpful nonetheless. But I can't see how to do this. I feel like she's my one weakness. How do the rest of you deal with this? You can't really stay emotionally detached from your wives, can you? If we could, should we?
Or does this come back to the human animal perspective, and I should consider her as my primary mate, birthing vessel for my offspring, one to be provided for. Challenging to keep emotions out of it, somehow; I guess it's cos like a lot of us, I was brought up with Disney. I learned about the concept of "love" from Disney, but they never showed you what happened after that first kiss and the credits roll. Therein lies the problem a lot of people seem to have when dealing with the opposite sex, you get all caught up in emotions. Less thinking on them, less words to describe them, right?
Actually, I did a little research a while back, wanted to see if there was a culture that had no word for (and therefore no concept of) romantic love, and was surprised to find the first one that came up was Japan. It turns out that until recent westernisation in the latter half of the last century, the idea we have of romantic love didn't exist. Those feelings were recognised as a temporary madness, and certainly not a state one should strive for. A wife was for breeding and cooking, that was that.
I may have answered my own question, I guess, having shown that our interpretation of the effects of "love" is more a construct of society than anything innate, so I should probably stop worrying, accept that I'm feeling like this because I'd like to breed with her, and while I'm at it, I can probably make her happy too. (I mean, in life, you know, not just, while breeding. That too, hopefully.)
http://ramblingtaoist.blogspot.com/2010/04/derivations-on-theme-when-life-sucks.html
he gou bob
Hello and welcome, by the way.
That is an interesting site, lots going on. Here's another Taoism site that is usually a-buzzing.
http://linwebsite.com/forum/
I did post there for awhile, but eventually pissed off too many people. Unintentional I should add, but inevitable seeing how few folks like a heretic.
Ye I no the tea house I am the river dog on there as well its good to talk to like minded people initially I pi**ed a few people of there myself but now its all back of the bus
Thanks BOB
Initially there did seem to me that there was a strong emphasis on the intellectual aspects of tao dissecting things to the point of no point (if you get my point)
And there is a place for that but that‘s not a definition of tao IMMHO
It‘s a bit like TTC 24
I felt it was limiting the discussion where Joe average maybe didn‘t feel comfortable
And there is one thing I cant stand its people telling me what TAO is, I am more than willing to listen to someone‘s opinion but that is just that there experiences with tao not mine, I find tao is different for everyone and of the moment
I no there are basic principles of tao and an underling essence.
I am not a big one for following the party line myself lol
And I try not to let my ego get the better of me I am always willing and eager to learn
If a man speaks or acts with a pure mind joy will follow him as his own shadow
he gou RD BOB