Why Is The Way That Can Be Told Not The Constant Way?

Carl

I guess I am lookimg at it as saying all we have is suffering. There is no mention of joy in our lives.

Carl

Know that everything I see ‘out there’ is a reflection of ‘in here’, means that ‘The Way’ I think I know is more personal than universal. Only when [chref=49]I have no mind of my own and take as my own the mind of the people[/chref] (and everything else) am I going to sense something akin to ‘[chref=1]the constant way[/chref]’.

That said, I don’t see any necessity or [chref=38]virtue[/chref] in getting to that place of universal knowing. If I do, I do; if not, so what? More useful perhaps is being mature enough to accept the fact that ‘The Way’ I [chref=71]think that I know [/chref]is personal and not universal. This, more than anything else, helps keep me from judging others according to my standards (which of course simply reflect my own needs and fears). Granted, it is tough at times. That is where the courage of self honesty and rational [chref=16]impartiality[/chref] come in handy.

In the end though, I find that the more self honest I become, the more I come to realize that there is no self... to be honest, or otherwise. How ironic. All that is left is to have no mind of my own but take as my own the mind of the people. How odd. Most intriguing of all, [chref=17]it happens to us naturally[/chref]. Thus, even if free will existed, who would need it?

riverwolf

Thanks so much for keeping this site going, it's such a great resource.

The first line of the TTC had a great impact on me. In fact it was the main reason that I got interested in the TTC in the first place. It works on many levels, and to me it seemed like the summary of life.

"The way that can be described is not the constant Way"...really seems very dull on its own, but really hits a person when a person is confronted with many opposing views. I was taking a comparative religion class, and generally falling asleep and two insights came about:

1. The different religions/doctrines all claim to be the Way, but their words and rhetoric used are just so different.

2. Within the same religion, there is also no constant doctrine because the priests have to just keep reinterpreting their teachings to fit the times. Even the word "Buddhism" has so many different meanings to different groups of people across time and space.

Then when I saw the opening intro to "Taoism", I really woke up! Wow! Finally, a truly honest teaching!

In retrospect, I share a similiar view with Carl, in that speaking about the Way is like a prescription: it has to be appropriate with the understanding and mental state of the audience. It naturally varies with things like culture, age, gender, nationality etc....Ideally, one to one conversation would be the best thing, but the era of massive human populations religions and organisations mass-produce such advice into sermons, writings, books, etc...

Carl

[cite] riverwolf:[/cite]Thanks so much for keeping this site going, it's such a great resource.

I’m grateful you feel it a resource. Most of the time I feel I’m just ‘pissing in the wind’. :oops:

1. The different religions/doctrines all claim to be the Way, but their words and rhetoric used are just so different.

Yes, when I started noticing that each group claimed to be ‘The True Way’ I became suspicious. They couldn't all be right, so claiming to be so made all of them 'wrong'. The Taoist view became the only rationally tenable one for me. The only other alternative is to simple not [chref=71]think[/chref] or [chref=56]speak[/chref].

In retrospect, I share a similiar view with Carl, in that speaking about the Way is like a prescription: it has to be appropriate with the understanding and mental state of the audience. It naturally varies with things like culture, age, gender, nationality etc....Ideally, one to one conversation would be the best thing, but the era of massive human populations religions and organisations mass-produce such advice into sermons, writings, books, etc...

Actually, I’ve found modeling the way to be the only way to ‘get it across’. The irony here is that nature is constantly modeling the way. All we need do is open our eyes and see: the fly, the peddle, the cloud, the leaf, the trash, the car, the moon, the rotting tomato... the list is endless. How we react to what we see and hear tells us volumes about ourselves; in knowing ourselves we can more easily [chref=59]follow the way from the start[/chref].

Why don’t we open our eyes and see? Perhaps we are blinded by our own expectations, desires, fears… We tend to only see that which we want and are ready to see. It rests in the eye of the beholder, or so this beholder sees it.

Lynn Cornish

Riverwolf, my first impression of Taoism was exactly the same as yours. Here is one "religion" that is above reproach. It starts out saying that what it says cannot be said. You phrased it a lot better than that.

We tend to only see that which we want and are ready to see.

I think we are only ABLE to see that which we are ready to see. I'm reading that Eckhart Tolle book, A New Earth, and he keeps saying to just see through the ego, see that everything is temporary, know you are not your thoughts, don't be caught up by your emotions and be in the present moment once and that's all it takes.

All teachers I encounter tell you just to be a certain way, but I've found that if you are not that certain way, it's useless to even try! It's just not honest or genuine. So thank you Carl for saying:

That said, I don’t see any necessity or virtue in getting to that place of universal knowing. If I do, I do; if not, so what?

That's the truth. So why do I meditate every day? Because it feels good! 8)

Carl

[cite] Lynn Cornish:[/cite]

That said, I don’t see any necessity or virtue in getting to that place of universal knowing. If I do, I do; if not, so what?

That's the truth. So why do I meditate every day? Because it feels good! 8)

Doesn’t it all boil down to this? Like all the rest of life on earth, we do what feels good… even if it feels ‘bad’ (if you know what I mean). What we think and do is determined deep within us in the balance scales of emotion. What we [chref=71]think[/chref] is ‘truth’, ‘good’, ‘right’, and ‘perfect’ simply reflects what we are want and like. It is so simple, so why is it so complicated? Simply because emotion is not rational, and our rational perceptions, in the final analysis, pivot on emotion. Perhaps this is the fuel that drives the sense of irony. Hmm...