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Chapter of the Week: #21
First lets consider this issue from a 'belief' point of view. I see two forms of belief: "I believe the sun exists" and "I believe free will exists". The first is empirically verified. I looked out my window this morning as there it was. I could point to the sun to anyone who didn't believe the sun came up and instantly prove my 'belief'. On the other hand, I find no empirical evidence for "I believe free will exist". On the contrary, all human behavior that I have seen or ever heard about has simply and elegant biological proofs to account for what it. This is elegant for it also applies to all other living things on the planet. So, as I see it, a belief in free will is a faith based belief no different than the belief in God. Enough on that. Let me address your comments.
The biology of it doesn't work that way. It is simple a matter of pleasure vs. pain. That which gives the most pleasure we do, that which gives the most pain we avoid. If doing the 'right thing' induces a sense of pleasure, even though it is painful (exercise) or avoids a pleasurable activity, we will do it. It all boils down to those two 'forces', pleasure and pain, for us as well as all other animals from amebias on up.
Perhaps recounting some personal experience with free will can help clarify.
( Beside, my kids keep asking me to write an autobiography, so this can be a first step.)
I was as staunch an advocate of free will for 40 years as you could find anywhere. I even proved it to myself when I turned 21. A year or so before 21 I decided that I would quite smoking on my 21st birthday. I did without a hitch. A few years later I took it up again when living among the hill tribe people in Laos. They had such good tobacco and cool pipes to smoke it in. Leaving S.E. Asia some years later I quite smoking again, rather than smoke normal tobacco. But, began again later on anyway... and stopped and began... and stopped. All the while certain of my free will and ability to choose. Although, choosing to quite smoking proved to drag itself out for a few decades.
Go figure. But, still I believed. Hallelujah! we have free will, but just fail at implementing it (I suppose I thought).
Not until my run in with correlations did a crack in my faith in free will appear. For the next decade or so I tried to find evidence of its reality. So far, all the evidence I've seen actually point the other direction. Of course, it all depends on what we mean by 'free'. If by 'free' we mean 'free as the wind blows', then I'd say we have free will. However, if by 'free' we mean that humans (unlike other animals) can choose without life's biological fetters, I see no support for that other than wishful thinking and faith.
Ah, which brings me to faith. Our belief in free will is like the belief in a religion. Indeed, all religions incorporate it either overtly as in Judeo Christian Islamic theologies, or as some version of implied free will ( 'enlightenment' for example) in other religions,... even Taoism ('groan'). On matters of belief, I have found that we can never ever convince a believer of anything otherwise - not with logic, evidence, reason,... nothing! Belief can only crumble from the inside through personal experience and self questioning. Being the antithesis of belief, questioning is the best antidote.
Do I believe there is no free will then? No. Not believing isn't the same as believing not. Believing not is what an atheist does. He believes there is 'No God'. Not believing is an absence of belief. There is no emotion connected to it. Basically it is returning to be simply a 'dumb animal' like those ants, rate, spiders, dogs, birds, etc.
The fact that we believe in stuff, whether free will, God, 'I', capitalism, communism, or Taoism, etc., makes us different in the animal kingdom, but not superior in any natural sense. That we feel, and thus think, we are superior and special is simply a symptom of the survival instinct - the integrity of being. If you could ask a rabbit if it was 'superior and special' it would say yes if it could talk. The unique ability of imagination makes us profoundly [chref=3]clever[/chref]. Alas, we know the other side of that [chref=65]clever[/chref] coin... profound stupidity. The consequences are predictable: [chref=16]Woe to him who wilfully innovates while ignorant of the constant[/chref]... and do we ever innovate! That's the main thing we pride ourselves on, our cleverness and creativity. Oh, the irony!
My word, what a 'clever' roll I'm on. Sorry for too many words. I just don't [chref=44]know when to stop[/chref] :oops:
No![cite] az:[/cite]Can we say instead, If the instinct to eat chocolate is stronger than the instinct to avoid chocolate's "damaging effects"
The biology of it doesn't work that way. It is simple a matter of pleasure vs. pain. That which gives the most pleasure we do, that which gives the most pain we avoid. If doing the 'right thing' induces a sense of pleasure, even though it is painful (exercise) or avoids a pleasurable activity, we will do it. It all boils down to those two 'forces', pleasure and pain, for us as well as all other animals from amebias on up.I think not. Our current instinctive drive to find the tastiest food, if it played itself out in the wild, would lead us to healthy food. This same drive, or course, has led to us making natural food as tasty as possible, i.e., grinding grain, squeezing out oil, evaporating sugar cane juice, not to mention all the yummy ways to boil, bake, and fry it. Simply put, our [chref=18]cleverness[/chref] is culturally passed on over millennia, while wisdom has to be relearned with each generation. See the natural and inevitable imbalance? Wisdom is personal inner knowing. Sure, words of wisdom and wise advice abound, but like the saying goes, 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink'. To 'hear' wisdom requires an 'ear' for wisdom....we have lost our instinct to choose the best foods for our health, and what is left is an animal without the ability to make natural choices.
Well I am too. Although, I feel like Don Quixote tilting at windmills at times. I keep on it because I suspect that our species will never reach 'self' understanding as long as it hangs on to this illusion. And we'll just keep bumping into the live's furniture.By the way, I am enjoying the free will thread very much. I appreciate the feedback.
It actually has little to do with our brain. Certainly our big brain, and perhaps even more importantly our hands, gave us the ability to refine food and make it as tasty as possible. Our taste buds zoom in on the rich food all by themselves. I recall taking baby son Luke to McDonalds when he was less than two. He zoomed right in on the fries. Was it the smell, the color, or both that pulled him? Not experience! We'd never given him any up to that time. Animals are the same. We had chickens who did the same thing.[cite] Lynn Cornish:[/cite]Our big brains conjure up desires/needs. I am hungry is one thing. I want chocolate is something else.
Perhaps recounting some personal experience with free will can help clarify.
( Beside, my kids keep asking me to write an autobiography, so this can be a first step.)
I was as staunch an advocate of free will for 40 years as you could find anywhere. I even proved it to myself when I turned 21. A year or so before 21 I decided that I would quite smoking on my 21st birthday. I did without a hitch. A few years later I took it up again when living among the hill tribe people in Laos. They had such good tobacco and cool pipes to smoke it in. Leaving S.E. Asia some years later I quite smoking again, rather than smoke normal tobacco. But, began again later on anyway... and stopped and began... and stopped. All the while certain of my free will and ability to choose. Although, choosing to quite smoking proved to drag itself out for a few decades.
Go figure. But, still I believed. Hallelujah! we have free will, but just fail at implementing it (I suppose I thought).Not until my run in with correlations did a crack in my faith in free will appear. For the next decade or so I tried to find evidence of its reality. So far, all the evidence I've seen actually point the other direction. Of course, it all depends on what we mean by 'free'. If by 'free' we mean 'free as the wind blows', then I'd say we have free will. However, if by 'free' we mean that humans (unlike other animals) can choose without life's biological fetters, I see no support for that other than wishful thinking and faith.
Ah, which brings me to faith. Our belief in free will is like the belief in a religion. Indeed, all religions incorporate it either overtly as in Judeo Christian Islamic theologies, or as some version of implied free will ( 'enlightenment' for example) in other religions,... even Taoism ('groan'). On matters of belief, I have found that we can never ever convince a believer of anything otherwise - not with logic, evidence, reason,... nothing! Belief can only crumble from the inside through personal experience and self questioning. Being the antithesis of belief, questioning is the best antidote.
Do I believe there is no free will then? No. Not believing isn't the same as believing not. Believing not is what an atheist does. He believes there is 'No God'. Not believing is an absence of belief. There is no emotion connected to it. Basically it is returning to be simply a 'dumb animal' like those ants, rate, spiders, dogs, birds, etc.
The fact that we believe in stuff, whether free will, God, 'I', capitalism, communism, or Taoism, etc., makes us different in the animal kingdom, but not superior in any natural sense. That we feel, and thus think, we are superior and special is simply a symptom of the survival instinct - the integrity of being. If you could ask a rabbit if it was 'superior and special' it would say yes if it could talk. The unique ability of imagination makes us profoundly [chref=3]clever[/chref]. Alas, we know the other side of that [chref=65]clever[/chref] coin... profound stupidity. The consequences are predictable: [chref=16]Woe to him who wilfully innovates while ignorant of the constant[/chref]... and do we ever innovate! That's the main thing we pride ourselves on, our cleverness and creativity. Oh, the irony!
My word, what a 'clever' roll I'm on. Sorry for too many words. I just don't [chref=44]know when to stop[/chref] :oops:
Comments
Chapter 21
In his every movement a man of great virtue
Follows the way and the way only.
As a thing the way is
Shadowy, indistinct.
Indistinct and shadowy,
Yet within it is an image;
Shadowy and indistinct,
Yet within it is an essence.
This essence is quite genuine
And within it is something that can be tested.
From the present back to antiquity
Its name never deserted it.
It serves as a means for inspecting the fathers of the multitude.
How do I know that the fathers of the multitude are like that?
By means of this.
Read commentary previously posted for this chapter.
Read notes on translations
A man of great virtue follows the way and the way only is the measure of [chref=41]the best student[/chref]. I recall, like one of Cinderella's sisters, trying to stuff myself into the shoes of great virtue. Fortunately I 'soon' felt the futility and realized my failure, and have since been gradually 'disappearing'. What else could possibly happen as I began to feel the [chref=14]indistinct and shadowy[/chref] essence of failure? It is ironic that failure allows me to feel the essence I was struggling to become... well, at least until I start [chref=8]contending[/chref] again. Alas, oh well, naturally... we [chref=36]must first[/chref] struggle to make failure possible. It is all quite [chref=56]mysterious[/chref], and something to live for as [chref=19]desires[/chref] wither away. And, we do need something to live for, if not for something we [chref=37]desire[/chref]! Instinct demands it!
First, a raw literal translation of chapter 21:
hole (opening) of virtue hold only (alone) way is from (ever, follow).
of way stands for things thought suddenly (seem) thought indistinct.
indistict suddenly (seem) its middle (center, core) have shape (image).
indistict suddenly its middle (center) have thing.
deep (quiet) dark (profound) its middle have extract (essence, perfect).
its extract extremely real (genuine; really; truly).
its middle have true (confidence; trust; evidence; letter).
self (certainly, from) its ancient reach (come up to, and) now (modern, present day),
its name (fame; reputation) not go (leave) use (because of) read (inspect, experience) many (crowd) just (only).
I who of know many just (only) of form (condition, account) (?!)
use ( take, according to) this.
And now to render it with some poetic license:
The opening to virtue always follows holding only to the way.
The way stands for: things of thought suddenly seem indistinct.
Thought suddenly seems its center has shape.
Indistinct suddenly seems its center has something.
Deep and dark, its center has an essence.
Its essence is extremely real. Its center has the evidence.
Its 'self' reaches from the ancient to the present,
Its reputation never leaves because it is experienced by all.
How do I know it is experienced by all?
Using this.