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Tao Te Ching: Literal Chinese vs. Translations
[cite] Carl:[/cite]tribal instinct
My view of life is that I am not a victim of such a thing. Is it a factor? Yes, I think it is. Do I chose to be at the cause of it? No.
Comments
Yes, there is a difference – occasionally profound – depending on the translator. Ninety percent of the time, authoritative translations (like those recommended here) convey the spirit, if not the letter of the literal original Chinese. Why? Understandably, translators need to use some [chref=81]beautiful and persuasive words[/chref] to make their translations readable. Also, the brightest translators in academia have centered their life's work around words. This may impede their ability to plumb the depths of the Taoist point of view (e.g., [chref=23]words[/chref] and [chref=5]speech[/chref]). Nevertheless, no problem; if we get that 90%, the rest comes [chref=17]to us naturally[/chref].
Translators will also tend to bend the Taoist view to match the Western humanist paradigm into which they are conditioned. No problem either! If a reader is likewise steeped in the humanist paradigm, nothing else would be palatable anyway. Understandably, the translation that feels best to us is the one that matches our own personal world view.
My Translation
My purpose in translating the Tao Te Ching is not to make it more understandable nor to make it more poetic. Although, I may succeed at both of these at times; you be the judge. I simply wish to convey what each chapter is actually saying in English as 'clear' and literal as possible. With the countless translations done over time perhaps others have succeeded in doing this. However, the one’s I have seen don’t - to one degree or another.
I first translate the chapter as literally as possible. I do rearrange prepositions and include other word meanings in parentheses to help. Yet, I imagine it is often difficult to read. Still, if you are interested enough, you can compare your version with the literal and mull it over. My 'polished' version of the literal may sometimes make sense, and sometimes not. But, heck, you get what you pay for.
Can you trust my translation? Ha! A few things may set me apart though. First, I'm no academic, brilliant or otherwise; I just barely put up with language. Second, I was never really integrated into Western culture, even before I left the country - so cultural conditioning was minimized. Being a rather 'clean slate' in these regards '[chref=36]set me up[/chref]' for being a nut case for many youthful years (I expect anyone pulled to the Taoist view can identify!). Hmm,... given all that, I don't know if I can trust my own translation either. But, that's a good thing.
Do it Yourself Too!
Translate a little bit yourself at Wengu and Zhongwen. These sites provides a very easy way to check out the Tao Te Ching in the original Chinese, character by character with translation/s for each. Just checking out an original character or two can help [chref=4]untangle a knot[/chref], or two. The former, Wengu, also has a choice of translations of which D.C. Lau’s is one.
Why bother you say? Doing this can help you see the Tao Te Ching as a mirror of your mind, rather than as the authoritative source of objective wisdom. Ha! The Tao Te Ching doesn't even consider itself as the source... just take Chapter 1, for example,...
[chref=1]The way that can be spoken of
Is not the constant way;
The name that can be named
Is not the constant name. [/chref]
Personally, I think of the Tao Te Ching as pointing to [chref=14]the shape that has no shape[/chref]. All I see when I look deeply in that direction is my 'self'.
However!
To be sure, I did say, "We feel that the value of D.C. Lau's translation lies in the fact that he does not seem to be a 'true' believer. After all, there is nothing like a true believer's interpretation to muck up the possibilities for a broader, possibly less biased view." Now, I wouldn't say I am a believer, true or other wise, although Andy keeps insisting that I am. I keep reminding him that I don't believe in the essential truth of [chref=43]words[/chref] and [chref=32]names[/chref]. Thus, how can I believe anything that I build from them. Perhaps there are two ways to look at 'belief'; (1) we 'rationally' believe a certain thought is true, e.g., the Ten Commandments, "he is an evil person"; (2) we emotionally and vigorously expresses a point of view, like an actor. Although an actor 'believes' his role and dialog when he is playing his part, off stage he does otherwise. As Shakespeare said "the whole world is a stage and we are merely players in it", whether we are aware of it or not.
I think there's some joy to be found in that EVERYONE gets irritated by the Tao Te Ching regardless of the language it's written in. The universal irritation is proof of the weakness of all language.
1. If you do not know Chinese
-You read one translation and it sounds weird
-You visit compare 2-4 translations and you still don't understand anything.
2. If you know Chinese
-Your Chinese is never good enough, lol
-The same words have different meanings in ancient and modern use.
-Even if you try to discern the word's original meaning from the combination of its pictograms, you realise that the same picture produces different responses in different people, so you go back to scratching your head again.
The Tao Te Ching has been a mirror for me since the early 60's. The best way I can explain the experience is to say that as ‘knowing’ arises within me, I see that ‘knowing’ mirrored in the TTC. Thus, it is my view that self understanding is the key to understanding the ‘tao’. You might say, the Tao Te Ching is a spokesman for our own self understanding[1]. Everything else is prologue.
This atypical situation may be due to the TTC being written from a point of view that runs counter to the biological ‘hoodwink’ we inherit at birth, and which drives the cultural paradigm. So, it takes time to experience life and test the ‘truth’ of that instinct to ‘get it’ (to see it ain't so true after all). Ah ha! More is actually not better. Ah ha! Nothing is more potent that something. Ah ha! [chref=46]In being content, one will always have enough.[/chref]
[1] This may actually apply to all external sources of information and knowledge. What we think we see depends upon what lies within us - and often reflects what we 'need to see'. What else could account for such a plethora of interpretations and the misunderstandings.
It is my personal belief that the Tao Te Ching cannot be understood without daily meditation and discipline.
I also doubt that you can begin to understand the Tao without a Master (Sifu) to guide you. As it takes someone who has travelled the pathless path who can point you in the right direction when you're own understanding has been influenced by the foreign mind.
I've got so many questions for this site as well as for everyone here but for those of you who have ever considered or have read through the entire text of Tao Te Ching pat yourselves on the back because you are in the top 1% of all population since the 3BC.
If it is ok with the board, I would like to put my thought on the board and look forward for your feed back.
To start off, when I became aware of this text, the prerequisite was
大å¸, 論語, åŸå, ä¸åº¸, 詩經, 書經, 禮記, 易經, 春秋 and after a very lengthy lecture then it was for us to get in touch with the Tao (or the Way) as it is described here by 王弼. I still have my notes and I would like to compare ideas with people here.
Once again thank you and look forward for our discussion~
Being a social species, we are driven by tribal (group) pressures. We look to a ‘leader who knows’ to guide us through the unknown, just like any other social species (chickens and sheep come to mind.) Thus, most folks believe as you do that we need leaders ("a Master"). That we feel the need, just like chickens and sheep, is a fact. The belief merely reflects the need. If chickens and sheep could think, they would likewise ‘believe’. Belief trumps ‘what is’ every time. And like lemmings its off the cliff we go following the Master ‘sage’ we trust.
No wonder the Tao Te Ching says, [chref=19]exterminate the sage, discard the wise, and the people will benefit a hundredfold[/chref], and no wonder the Taoist point of view isn’t popular. Nevertheless, seeing things as they are, rather than how we think they are, or should be, avoids considerable difficulty, i.e., [chref=71] To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty. [/chref]
Believing what we think, and thinking what we believe makes for a vicious circle that is difficult to escape. Oh but how boring life would be if it were easy.
My Master(Sifu) teaches without words.
Have a great day :-)
Perhaps for the same reason I write what I do. The social instinct urges me to communicate with folks and pass along what I see. The most sticking point made in the Tao Te Ching is the view that, to quote D.C. Lau, [chref=47]without looking out of the window one can see the way of heaven[/chref]. If one need not look out his window, how much less does he need a teacher to know the way of heaven. Being profoundly social animals, the need we feel for a ‘master’ (leader, guru, teacher, boss, king, chief, etc.) is rooted in the social tribal hierarchical instinct. Also, this is often accompanied by the simple need to get ‘something’. Being social animals most folks feel a need to fit in as either leaders or followers to one degree or another. It is a symbiotic relationship based in emotion, and often accompanied by various forms of ‘ranking’ to boost credibility and prestige, e.g., “he studied with so and so; he graduated top of his class; he did this or that… etc”.
At least that is what I see when I peal away the hoopla and hype. Of course, believers and followers (especially in the religious and political arenas) are blinded by their allegiance to the 'unique' master they follow and thus are incapable of [chref=16]impartiality[/chref].
There are two sides to every coin.
I understand your perspective in instances when one person can be biased towards one teacher and is ignorant of the teachings of life or other teachers.
I have many teachers in my life from my daily discipline of Martial Arts, Tai Chi (Wun Yuen and Liu He Ba Fa Quan), daily yoga, forest walking, daily meditation, reading, to my weekly Salsa dancing classes and more...
Perhaps there only seems to be two sides, as in my old favorite: [chref=56]This is known as mysterious sameness[/chref].
I am not referring to any “ignorance” on anyone’s part really. It goes much deeper than any lack of rational knowing. When we feel connected to an idea, a person or a group (e.g., belief, respected friend, home team), part of ‘it’ becomes ‘us’. As Buddha put it, “the illusion of self originates and manifests itself in a clinging to things”. ‘Things’ can be physical, emotional or intellectual (e.g., cars, friends, beliefs). In fact, whatever we feel ‘important’ shines ‘importance’ back upon us. Or put another way, the importance we attribute to something is a reflection of our need for self importance.
Mind you, I’m not saying anything is ‘wrong’ with any of this. Right and wrong also simply reflect our need for self importance. To be on the ‘right’ side of the issue, do the ‘right’ kind of activity, live the ‘right’ kind of life feels important. Put simply, we are “biased” toward what we feel ‘right’ (i.e., important, true, good, healthy, wise, essential, etc.) and “biased” against the opposite of those qualities.
All this is natural, of course. What I find eye-opening is how easily we succumb to this illusion. Well, actually, that’s not surprising. Any illusion worth its salt should be able to easily pull the wool over our eyes.
One thing that clued me into this illusion was when I began noticing that scores of folks think they are ‘right’ about this or that, yet the ‘right’ varied all over the place; one person’s ‘right’ often being another person’s ‘wrong’. That says nothing is ‘right’, or all is ‘right’. All right, this is enough beating around the bush for one day. :roll: