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Chapter of the Week: #07 [Archive]
I am still not getting the control part. I don't see it so much that we are in control but that things affect us and we come to forks in the road. Not like we can choose anything at anytime but that at certain moments, we can chose which fork in the road we take. And maybe the fork has two or more possibilities but not unlimited.[cite] Carl:[/cite]Yet, our egos claim we are in control
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Note: The Tao Te Ching can be obscure, especially if you think you're supposed to understand what it's saying! We find it easier and more instructive to simply contemplate how the chapter resonates with your personal experience. Becoming more aware at this fundamental level simplifies life. This approach conforms to the view that true knowing lies within ourselves. Thus, when a passage in the scripture resonates, you've found your inner truth. The same applies for when it evokes a question; questions are the grist for self realization.
Chapter 7
Heaven and earth are enduring.
The reason why heaven and earth can be enduring
is that they do not give themselves life.
Hence they are able to be longlived.
Therefore the wise puts his person last and it comes first,
Treats it as extraneous to himself and it is preserved.
Is it not because he is without thought of self
that he is able to accomplish his private ends?
The reason why heaven and earth can be enduring is that they do not give themselves life echos Jesus's comment, "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it". I really savor finding a succinct Christian (or other religion's) view that coincides with the Taoist view. This demonstrates the deep common ground of the human experience. It is curious how much we allow the 'words', and the beliefs they form, to get in the way. Of course, that is just our tribal instinct at play, painting us into our respective corners.
The Taoist view is so refreshing in that is doesn't play into the hands of that tribal instinct. Right from the start we see, "[chref=1]The name that can be named, Is not the constant name.[/chref]" It is really hard to proselytize '[chref=40]Nothing[/chref]', though I do try, don't I...
What are my private ends anyway? I suppose that equates to happiness. However, the idea of private ends pulls me deeper in. Ends is a particularly important notion. I seem to be innately predisposed to 'rush' through the moment to get to the end, only to begin the rush once again on to the next end I imagine will make me happy. This is the downside of imagination. It allows me to envision an ideal reality disconnected from my moment. An emotional urge then wells up in me to reach that ideal end. The more I push toward the end, the less I [chref=37]remain still[/chref] to smell the roses along the way. Sigh...
And, when I really face myself honestly, it is those roses that I want to smell. That is my private end. My imagined ideals promise me this private end 'tomorrow' - when I achieve my ideal goal. But, 'tomorrow' never comes. It is actually within the [chref=64]journey[/chref] where the roses lie. I notice that it is only when I'm without thought of self that I am able to [chref=10]embrace[/chref] 'things' as they are. By relaxing my preconceptions of self (and everything else), each moment becomes [chref=67]vast[/chref], and the roses smell good.
Ah, such nice words, but talk is cheap. How do we bring it about? Perseverance, plain and simple. But, how does one [chref=33]persevere[/chref]? We are innately set up to persevere towards concrete goals - not towards [chref=64]dealing with a thing while it is still nothing[/chref]. For me, [chref=40]turning back[/chref] to [chref=19]have as little thought of self[/chref] as possible does not come innately. Ah sucks! But, it does actually happen quite [chref=25]naturally[/chref] when I let it. Of course, that begs the question... how do I 'let it'? :?
Ah sucks, that's easy. Just living life each day like there is no tomorrow. How? Mmmmm... well, I've noticed that I can't do that as long as I believe that tomorrow is real. Being without thought of self never occurs for me when I imagine a future for my self to be. By hanging onto the future, I loose the present. Simply odd; oddly simple.
*Note: future is any time - from the next moment, the next day, the next year, the next... where ever the grass looks greener.
I find that staying in the NOW is a difficult thing to do! I do it by tutoring high school students in math and physics. Having dialogue with my twin boys, who are now 40 years old, and have started to get into The Church of the Nazerene. This keeps me in the NOW, being a Zen Buddhist-Taoist trying to relate to where they are coming from. It seems the more that I am involved with other people, the less I am concerned about what is happening to me, and I wind up in the NOW. Of course I have my share of failing at staying in the NOW!
I read The Human Zoo by Desmond Morris a long time ago, he refers to tribes, super tribes etc., what references do you recommend that I read to understand more about the tribal instincts that you are refering to. I want to get a better appreciation of where you are coming from, your tribal perspective,
1) That's a swell idea! Someday I may well do the same when time permits. Although, I'm such a uncouth heretic that I'd probably get 'NOW training' by getting into any group.
2) Well, I'm not sure that book has been written yet, as least the full unabridged version. What I mean to say is that I am just looking around me and observing life. Dropping pre-beliefs has helped me greatly see a more un-varnished version of what is. Of course, my observation all gets filtered / colored by my own instincts (need and fears), but age has done wonders to mellow that stuff... as I'm sure you know. So, I'd say look around and see. If you concur - post, if you don't - post. We'll build the book together.
I've replied to your short question, but not [chref=44]knowing when to stop[/chref], I'll continue... :oops:
I really suspect that spontaneous and 'porous' personal observation is more likely to 'clue' us into what is going on than any book. Books are 'too' static - "dead man's words", as Chuang Tzu put it. Now the fact that I got that quote out of a book is not as contradictory as it seems. Books serve a social purpose, i.e., reading what Chuang Tzu said connects me to him.
Of course I'm not referring to fact books*, but rather to books that speak about deepest subjective (i.e., 'spiritual') life issues. So even scripture, like the Tao Te Ching, tells us nothing more than we already know within our experience. As we know deeper, scripture says more, and also reminds us to remember what we know. At least that's been my experience.
Much of my life was preoccupied with how my 'self' was in control, which made me oblivious to how profoundly 'we' is actually pulling the stings. I imagine I'm noticing the 'we' more as 'me' ([chref=19]thought of self [/chref]) withers with time.
*Fact books are limited in scope to what is plainly observable by everyone, e.g., science, geography, plumbing... Still, we make much to much ado about learning, which only obfuscates being. One interferes with the other to a degree. We just can't have it both ways. We can't really be present if our mind is drifting off into the future or back into the past. To be natural is simply [chref=64]learning to be without learning[/chref] - a beginner each moment, so to speak. Sure, modern life requires us to think and learn what we need - but, we have trouble [chref=9]stopping in time[/chref] don't we?
Isn't life odd? Well, consciousness actually. The '[chref=56]mysterious sameness[/chref]' is like a fog that make seeing it so [chref=21]indistinct and shadowy[/chref].
Except for when I was a kid, trained as a Catholic, which by the way my wife is a Catholic, I have been in Buddhism, Taoism and Eastern Philosophy for most of my adult life. I still question and I probably will be questioning till the day I die! This journey has been extremely rewarding for me. I have received no formal training and really do not want it, because I believe we have everything we need within us. I do my best to not be judgemental about other people's belief systems. A lot of people believe in a personal god. Some people do not believe in any god. I believe in an impersonal god. The bottom line is who cares, as long as what you believe or do not believe in does not contribute to creating more sadness, pain etc to people and other creatures and our planet Earth.
You show me the person who thinks they know what is going on, and I will show you a person who does not know what is going on.
I think life is either too complex or too simple and no man made words or methods etc. will ever explain it.
I think if we do not get our act together, "mother-nature will solve the probelem for us." 99.9% of the creatures that ever existed are now extinct! What makes us think we are any different?
Your approach is different than mine. I need to experience, gather information, have dialogue with people and nature, read and study. I guess that is why I am a math and physics tutor.
Hopefully my comments are not arrogant. I really hate communicating by email and the internet. I prefer one on one with my fellow human beings.
1) Ah sucks, I don't think if it is as different as you imagine - and probably more similar. All in all, I find 'differences' of any sort to be relative and illusionary. They reflect where I'm at - at the moment. My comments are really about where I find myself 'now'.
2) No way! Never!
3) For sure, the internet can be a communication's challenge. It is just that it can be hard to locate others, one on one, to delve into 'stuff' like this - depending of geography and circumstance. Thus, what we're doing on this site is an experiment, I suppose, in offering a forum for 'this'. We'll see where it goes, eh?
But I sure appreciate your participation. So, again, "no way... never" are you being arrogant.
Allandnone, I just had to say that I feel exactly the same way. It's either too complex or too simple :!: Maybe it's both--Carl will say that complex and simple are the same.
P.S. If I know I don't know what's going on, does that mean I know what's going on and so I don't know what's going on? Either way, I'm pretty sure I don't.
"If I know I don't know what's going on, does that mean I know what's going on and so I don't know what's going on? Either way, I'm pretty sure I don't."
I am in total agreement with you. I also think that the moment that we think or feel that we understand what is going on, life will will show us that it is not so. Life is like a "Trickster" who changes things just to keep us on our toes (ha ha).