Chapter of the Week: #76 [Archive]

Interesting discussion. To me, it seems as if a bit of self-righteousness slips into your post, as in "Taoism is for the select few who see the light" so to speak. Surely that was not your intent (and can I call you "Surely"? :wink: ), and the whole idea of trying to promote Taoism sounds a bit funny. People come to Taosim or Taoist-like attitudes to life simply by accident or philosophical inclinations (the latter for me).
I'm enjoying your commentaries and the whole web site.
Speaking of failure, the writer William Gaddis has a wonderful essay on failure in America, called "The Rush for Second Place." Worth checking out. Oh, while I'm on the subject of books, Raymond Smullyan's excellent "The Tao is Silent" is one of my faves!

Comments

  • edited July 2005
    Each week we address one chapter of the Tao Te Ching. Chapter 76 was originally featured on the 4th week in June.

    Note: The Tao Te Ching can be obscure, especially if you think you're supposed to understand what it's saying! We find it easier and more instructive to simply contemplate how the chapter resonates with your personal experience. Becoming more aware at this fundamental level simplifies life. This approach conforms to the view that true knowing lies within ourselves. Thus, when a passage in the scripture resonates, you've found your inner truth. The same applies for when it evokes a question; questions are the grist for self realization.

    Chapter 76
    A man is supple and weak when living, but hard and stiff when dead.
    Grass and trees are pliant and fragile when living, but dried and
    shrivelled when dead. Thus the hard and the strong are the comrades
    of death; the supple and the weak are the comrades of life.

    Therefore a weapon that is strong will not vanquish;
    A tree that is strong will suffer the axe.
    The strong and big takes the lower position,
    The supple and weak takes the higher position.
  • edited December 1969
    [Note: I italicize phrases I borrow from the chapter, and link to phrases I borrow from other chapters to help tie chapters together. Some say that this makes reading it tedious at times... oh well :wink: ]

    This chapter is out of sync ? with my Taoist thoughts anyway. It completely overlooks the complimentary nature of reality... 'quantum non-locality', and how [chref=2] Something and Nothing produce each other[/chref]. It is simply inconsistent with the rest of the Tao Te Ching, and even more so with correlations. And, yet it sounds 'true'. Why? Because we are so linguistically inconsistent from infancy. We use words any way we can to rationalize our needs to hammer home our agenda. Oh,... not me, of course. :lol:

    The major inconsistency I see in this chapter lies in the associations made between life, death, weak and strong. In my view, death is supple, weak, yin, large, and takes the lower position. Death, in the form of a stiff corpse last only a fleeting moment. Check back in awhile and you'll see death has gotten mushy. On the other hand, a life form is hard and strong during its fleeting attempt to flow against the river of entropy. The Taoist model is to see through this biological 'hoodwink', and via an intuitive sense of [chref=40]weakness[/chref], take the [chref=61]lower position[/chref], and [chref=8]not contend[/chref]. So, what's this nonsense about takes the higher position?

    Finally, the phenomenon of comrades is based on complementary relationships, with parallel similarities taking a minor role. The 'opposites attract' is a deep natural principle counterbalanced by the shallow one of 'birds of a feather flock together' (note, this is yet another example of a complementary relationship - they're everywhere!).

    It turns very [chref=14]indistinct and shadowy [/chref] when you try to examine 'it' too closely. It all become [chref=14]confused and looked upon as one[/chref]. At that point you just go have a cup of tea.
  • edited December 1969
    If I say it enough times the "word" word sound wierd to me. I think the "word" is a double edged sword and you are damed when you use it, and you are damed if you do not. This form of communication is definitely a mixed blessing. If we could have actually been in the author's mind and living at the time this was written perhaps we could grasp the meaning for a fleeting moment.

    After reading your interpretation Carl, and reading your commentary section, I started looking at this chapter of Tao Te Ching differently. Perhaps there is some truth to the word "hermeneutics" I remember when I tried to study Truth and Method by Hans-Georg Gadamer, I most blew a mental casket when he got into hermeneutics, the interpretation of meaning.

    Perhasps, we need much more than words to understand Nature! :D And being that we are unique human beings, with different life experiences, different ways of "how" we process information, different ways of "what" we process etc. will lead to a different interpretation of the same Nature we are all involed in. Well, I like I said many times what do I know, "all and nothing". :D
  • edited December 1969
    Carl I just could not let this go by without mentioning it as a separate comment. This is such a beautiful concept " quantum nonlocalty". I will start with a basic description:

    "Quantum nonlocality is a paradox that was described first by Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen (EPR), who published the idea in 1935. The EPR paradox draws attention to a phenomenon predicted by quantum mechanics known as quantum entanglement, in which measurements on spatially separated quantum systems can instantaneously influence one another. As a result, quantum mechanics violates a principle formulated by Einstein, known as the principle of locality or local realism, which states that changes performed on one physical system should have no immediate effect on another spatially separated system."

    Our "local realistic" view of the world assumes that phenomena are separated by time and space and that no influence can travel faster than the speed of light. Quantum nonlocality proves that these assumptions are incorrect, and that there is a principle of holistic interconnectedness operating at the quantum level which contradicts the localistic assumptions of classical, Newtonian physics.

    Also, Quantum nonlocality does not prove that "signals" travel "faster than light." Rather, it shows that at a deep level of reality, the speed of light as a limiting factor is irrelevant because phenomena are instantaneously connected regardless of distance.

    At this moment I feel like the Dance Wu Li Grasshopper. :D
    Everything is connected! Wow so beautiful! Thank you for mentioning it! :D
  • edited December 1969
    [cite] Allandnone:[/cite]
    (1)...Perhaps there is some truth to the word "hermeneutics"

    (2) ...being that we are unique human beings, with different life experiences, different ways of "how" we process information, different ways of "what" we process etc. will lead to a different interpretation of the same Nature we are all involved in....

    Two thoughts come to mind,... what? and right!

    (1) So, I looked it up in the dictionary. I assume that much has been written on this, Hans-Georg Gadame for one. Happy in my ignorance, I won't delve into it further; here's the dictionary's entry: hermeneutic >adj. concerning interpretation, especially of the Bible or literary texts. - ORIGIN: from Gk herm neutikos, from herm neuein 'interpret'.

    (2) I sense that 'it' is all about interpretation, and nothing but interpretation. The 'Nature' that I see is only a reflection of the sum of who 'I' am. There is no such thing as an objective reality. It is all subjective. Accepting this actually make me feel closer to Nature,... to reality. Every experience then becomes a window facing inward. Note: interpretation also includes our aesthetic preferences... [chref=2]good, beautiful[/chref] and so on.

    The very idea of objectivity conveys the sense that there is a reality 'out there' which can be known. This illusion spawns the 'true' beliefs we all hold so dear. To paraphrase the good book, the belief [chref=1]that can be spoken of[/chref] is not the constant belief. Of course, in the believer's eye, what he sees is as real as his 'self'. Belief and 'self' are mutually supportive of one another. 'I' believe such and such... believing such and such bolsters my idea of who 'I' am, my self identity.

    Of course there is a profound tribal aspect to this, perhaps that is all belief really is. When we all share a common Belief, we interpret Nature similarly and thus feel a deeper sense of connection with each other. Of course we vary across the bell curve in character and personality, and so we don't truly see 'it' all the same way. Thus, we must pretend that we do in order to fit in. We could keep this a secret too, if only we could burn all the heretics! :wink:
  • edited December 1969
    It is exteremely sad when we have to pretend to be someone we are not! This is such a waste of life. :cry: When we observe Nature it is, what it is!
  • edited December 1969
    Thus, we must pretend that we do in order to fit in.

    I don't think that's such a shame. If our identity, our sense of self, is a total sham anyway, and our beliefs support that unreality, what the hey.

    I feel like I've spent much of my adulthood seaching for something(s) to believe in and now I'm finding that stripping those beliefs away is..what's the word...the only thing that makes sense.

    And so, after reading, and meditating, yoga, rebirthing, joining an ashram, trying all kinds of things, in a way I am back full circle; in another way, nothing was lost and nothing was wasted.
  • edited December 1969
    Sorry, I should have given an example of what I meant. When I was working in the business and engineering world I meant several men who literally denied their own personality dynamic to meet the boss' (corporation) definition of the needed personality for the job promotions. And of course they do not tell you what they are! These individuals than develope stress, heart disease etc. because they could not be who they really are. I have been there, done that myself and I think it is an easy trap to fall into. Hopefully this will explain where I was coming from. :lol:
  • edited December 1969
    I understand what you are saying, now. We are born with a of personality, a set of traits, and if we deny that it causes internal tension that leads to unhealthy effects. When I first started working, I was in New York, where no one acted like themselves, and socializing was frowned upon...it was very formal (probably not like that anymore). Then I moved to California and found I could act perfectly myself, socializating was 'fostering good interpersonal relationships' and it was a much healthier way to work. I didn't feel so szchizoid.
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