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Chapter of the Week: #75 [Archive]
I think that, too. I *should* be kind, compassionate, wise, peaceful, but guess what! I'm not! Especially when I feel threatened I've noticed that I am the opposite of all that. And then, I beat myself up for not being that way (after all, that's my true self) and then I get angry at myself for judging myself, and round and round I go, caught up in the cycle of suffering.
I have a feeling that, through practice, as my awareness increases and I can see more clearly what is going on in me, I can be more compassionate of what is going on in you...that mysterious sameness that Carl talks about becomes apparent. So that leads me to believe that my first statement is true. Through practice, you realize the connectedness of everything.
I guess the question boils down to: is our true nature that of an animal or that of a God? Or both!
I have a feeling that, through practice, as my awareness increases and I can see more clearly what is going on in me, I can be more compassionate of what is going on in you...that mysterious sameness that Carl talks about becomes apparent. So that leads me to believe that my first statement is true. Through practice, you realize the connectedness of everything.
I guess the question boils down to: is our true nature that of an animal or that of a God? Or both!
Comments
Note: The Tao Te Ching can be obscure, especially if you think you're supposed to understand what it's saying! We find it easier and more instructive to simply contemplate how the chapter resonates with your personal experience. Becoming more aware at this fundamental level simplifies life. This approach conforms to the view that true knowing lies within ourselves. Thus, when a passage in the scripture resonates, you've found your inner truth. The same applies for when it evokes a question; questions are the grist for self realization.
Chapter 75
The people are hungry:
It is because those in authority eat up too much in taxes,
That the people are hungry.
The people are difficult to govern:
It is because those in authority are too fond of action,
That the people are difficult to govern.
The people treat death lightly:
It is because the people set too much store by life,
That they treat death lightly.
It is just because one has no use for life that
one is wiser than the man who values life.
Welllllll, I don't know, but for what it's worth...
After living more than a decade in various countries of the Far East I came to notice that there was no real difference between East and West people. In fact, having lived in Sweden for a few years and Japan for five I can tell you that the two cultures, as an expression of their peoples, are far more similar than let's say the Japanese and the Chinese, or the Japanese and the Thais. So, I came to think of the apparent differences as differences in cultural personality. When I dealt one on one with a Swedish, a Thai, a Japanese, a Chinese, an Egyptian.... or an American person (etc.), I found that what really stood out to me was how unique each individual was on the outside, like different snow flakes, yet just scratch the surface and we are all as water. ... The Surface is an illusion of differences, under which rests a realm of [chref=56]mysterious sameness[/chref].
In the end I see differences as lying in the eye of the beholder. We tend to notice and make mountains out of mole hill differences when we have an agenda: something to sell, something advantage to gain or some perspective (belief) to bolster. We pick the 'evidence' which supports our view. Me included! The thing is, an inclusive view [chref=81]contends[/chref] much less with how things are and so leaves me feeling more restful.
What do you think of them apples?
It is because those in authority are too fond of action really hits the nail on the head for problems families incur raising kids, and just in general I suppose. Not taking action however does not mean being a 'doormat' either. [chref=16]Holding firmly to stillness[/chref] is a profoundly effective way to [chref=57]govern [/chref]. Nature is an enlightening model for [chref=60]governing[/chref] anything. Nature does not lord it over us and throw its weight around, rather it [chref=3]empties[/chref] us.
When I set too much store by life, it is difficult to govern my own life. The ironic truth is that only by letting go does life come [chref=64]easy[/chref]. The difficulty I have governing my own life impels me to be too fond of action. The same applies to those in government I presume. Heck, if we can't manage our own lives, why not [chref=48]meddle[/chref] in someone else's affairs to compensate? :twisted: It is pathetic isn't it?
It isn't so much my opinion as simply what I observed. But, maybe opinion and observation are the same. Or, are they the same only when you voice your observation :?: I suppose that's why they say [chref=5]better to hold fast to the void[/chref]. Maybe tomorrow.
Anyway, I'm not sure we actually disagree. People have two personalities, a cultural one and an 'innate nature' one. There are profound cultural personality differences, as I said, and agree with you on. But, these are the paradigms which each population, East and West respectively, struggle to conform to. This is no different the 'colors' which opposing gangs wear, scarring in African tribes, or a thousand and one other 'faces' we wear to fit in. But, the 'faces' we wear is not our innate nature - 'true self'. The 'faces' are just make believe... you know, "the whole world is a stage and we are all actors". I don't feel this 'drama' (the 'colors', the 'faces') is real because I don't feel the 'act' is real. It's make believe... an illusion of difference. Of course, when you feel the illusion is real, then it feels real.
The reason we mis-communicate and misunderstand is because we believe the illusion, the 'act' is real. But, just because the whole world believes it is real doesn't make it actually real, does it? Of course, for the believer it is real. It is all kind of odd and ironic.
It isn't Western culture which the East wants to copy... It is affluent life style that EVERYONE wants. Affluent means you have better access to pleasure and beguiled by the illusion that this will eliminate suffering, i.e., more pleasure must mean less pain, right? Wrong from the Buddha's point of view. But, how many folks, Eastern or Western actually 'buy' Buddha's point of view? In my experience, no more in either culture. We all are in the same boat... really!
Hey, this is like a real conversation. Great. Your turn now.
Development of the integrated personality involves nurturing and integrating the mental, emotional, and physical principles, such as a more clear, objective mind (mental); a good heart, with the ability to create satisfying relationships (emotional); and the ability to take effective, practical actions (physical). The integrated personality demonstrates a balanced expression of all three principles. Transpersonal development, on the other hand, involves nurturing and integrating the three principles in their higher, more spiritual form of expression, such as vision (mental); deep compassion (emotion); and actions that are directed by vision and compassion, in the service of the collective good (physical).
Speaking for myself most of the time my personality is integrated, where I have problems is when I am under a lot of stress, or very tired I lose it!! So I am still working at it probably will be till I take my last breath. Transpersonal development is a hard and long journey. My weak area is the mental principle.
What is interesting about our conversation is that I think we both know that if we follow Taoism and Buddhism there is nothing else to say or do, but I still love striving for the infinite with a limted body. Cheers
I feel a little mischievous, but, what the heck,...
"Striving" give life meaning, a sense of [chref=33]purpose[/chref]. Without that despair sets in, I find. But, is striving for an illusion, i.e., the impossible, the most balanced way to fulfill our natural need to feel life meaningful? We are who we are, our original nature, from birth to death. It is ironic that the myths we hold most dear are those which promise to fix our 'sinful' (or otherwise messed up) selves,... to 'reunite' us with _____? Yet, that _____ is all we ever are from the get go. We seem to always need more than what we have. A natural innate instinct, eh?
Why do we do this? Like you said, "weakest area is the mental principle". Our brain is just too big for its britches and so without having 'wilderness survival' needs to occupy its space and time, it goes off on it own [chref=53]by-paths[/chref], fueled by our innate emotions that bubble and boil within.
Need drive us on,
Even though,
Where we are,
Is where we need to go.
Cheers Carl
We've got to stop meeting like this!...
(1) yes yes yes. This is the simplest and most elegant explanation so I have to go with it unless I realize something even more elegant. As an engineer I know you also appreciate the 'beauty' and 'truth' of simple and elegant.
(2) No. If there were some way for us, as a species, to realize what is going on - the source of our 'problem' - we might be able to compensate a little better, and also know when to [chref=32]stop[/chref]! Being kicked out of Eden, and the similar religious explanations for our plight only separate us further from nature. Buddhism and Taoism do this less, but they still do it. Taoism the least which is why I'm 'here'.
One of the main unintended consequences is how civilization messes with, if not eliminates, the close social fabric which ancestral hunter gatherer tribal conditions provided. Our innate social nature is part of our biology. We along with the other apes, evolved with this as a foundational need, possible stronger than ANY other, e.g., sex, food. Look at every thing people do. There is a deep social aspect to it, e.g., the Sangha (community)of Buddhism is what holds people, not the Dharma. In Christianity, it is the Church (community) which holds people, not what Jesus preached. I say people; I mean most people, but it may well be ALL people? Anyway, civilization can never compensate for the loss of tribal intimacy. Even more true of modern civilization, I suppose.
Eventually, 1000's of years from now, we may return to a more simple intimate tribal existence. Who knows what nature has in store? But, for now, I think if we can improve our situation by following Buddhas approach, i.e., diagnose the 'problem'. If we have an incorrect diagnosis, what hope have we to deal wisely with the cause - none. I find Buddha's diagnosis for our personal suffering was right on. But, his diagnosis doesn't go far enough. Perhaps because 2500 years ago the consequences of civilization where not as apparent as they are today. But, even today, we tend to think of civilization as a 'cure' for our dilemma. So, we go around in circles. :?
The most important thing you are doing with the kids is social! Also, preparing them educationally for the world we live in is necessary. Hunter gathering is out, even if we wanted to return to that life style. And, if you see what I see, then helping others see it too may help. I don't know, but that's why I write what I write. I often feel I'm pissing in the wind, for I notice that we have a strong tendency to see what we 'want' to see. The bottom line though is that it addresses my social needs - even if I'm mostly 'talking to myself'.
(3) I feel that the most profound knowledge is knowing that I don't [chref=71]know[/chref] what I thought I did. Then I start to be curious and look around and discover all sorts of curious connections. I think this is one of the true bonuses that comes with age.
Good gravy, once I get to typing it's like the damn springs a leak, eh?
The more activity and pursuit of empty desire in my life, the more difficult my life is to govern. When I turn back to the way, away from desires, then my life is much saner, much easier to govern.
About the discussion about the human brain getting us into trouble. I think our brain, in the context of modern civilization, acts to fill our innate biological needs/drives. We need shelter from the elements; our brain in civilization can push that to a 3,200 sq.ft., 4-bedroom, 3-bath house. (Which I plan to have built this year for my family. It seems too much, but there are some practical reasons for this size.) Or being able to think of how to create 100?s of choices for desserts, because our bodies have a desire for sweets, which 100,00 years ago would have been balanced by the amount of food we were able to gather. When I can remember that my brain is just another tool to help me survive, I realize that just because I can think something up, doesn?t mean it?s realistic.
As Carl points out from time to time: we don?t escape the consequences of life with all the ways we have to achieve comfortable living. The consequences just become much more subtle ? like the hardening of arteries, etc. that lead to triple-bypass surgery. (Which I probably have had at least 8-10 older relatives need because of unhealthy diets with no exercise.)