Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
progress
[Note: I italicize phrases I borrow from the chapter, and link to phrases I borrow from other chapters to help tie chapters together. While making it more tedious to read, :? the Tao Te Ching is best pondered in the context of the whole.
Well sure we can be invincible if we [chref=55]add to [our] vitality, and egg on [our][/chref] chi (qi) long enough. Not only will the blades not lodge, bullets won't either...
I just couldn't resist some cheap sarcasm. :oops:
The reference to comrades of life and comrades of death refers to natural innate characteristics. Some are born who feel the cup half full more of the time, some who feel the cup half empty more of the time. A few feel it always full, and a few feel it always empty. I see the same spectrum throughout nature. What make us different from other animals is the added influences of thought. So, for example, not only may we feel the cup half empty, we humans can haul around all the rationalizations we build up over the years to 'prove' that it is - [chref=65]clever[/chref] animals that we are. Of course, this applies to the cup half full folks as well.
One consequence of human thought is that we all tend to set too much store by life. We are freaked out by an 'awareness' of death, both past and future. Death stands in such sharp contrast to what we [chref=71]think[/chref] life is. And our [chref=19]desires[/chref], both of the past and for the future, play the major role in this. 'Now' is just a point of passage between those two illusions. The [chref=72]awe[/chref] the other animals feel always 'now', we feel only when we are yanked out of our mind's dream. By not living 'now', but in the past and future, we fail to [chref=33]live out [our] days[/chref]. We want more, set too much store, and thus (ironically) move into the realm of death.
Christ's comment succinctly expresses the Taoist and Buddhist point of view on who excels in safeguarding his own life: "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it". Was Christ perhaps a little too succinct? Many hold that the "preserving" lies in some future Heaven. Here, the Taoist parts company - 'now' is Heaven. By clinging on, we loose 'now', not later. Thus, we can only truly have what we give up. For him there is no realm of death, for he does not set too much store by life.
Well sure we can be invincible if we [chref=55]add to [our] vitality, and egg on [our][/chref] chi (qi) long enough. Not only will the blades not lodge, bullets won't either...
I just couldn't resist some cheap sarcasm. :oops:The reference to comrades of life and comrades of death refers to natural innate characteristics. Some are born who feel the cup half full more of the time, some who feel the cup half empty more of the time. A few feel it always full, and a few feel it always empty. I see the same spectrum throughout nature. What make us different from other animals is the added influences of thought. So, for example, not only may we feel the cup half empty, we humans can haul around all the rationalizations we build up over the years to 'prove' that it is - [chref=65]clever[/chref] animals that we are. Of course, this applies to the cup half full folks as well.
One consequence of human thought is that we all tend to set too much store by life. We are freaked out by an 'awareness' of death, both past and future. Death stands in such sharp contrast to what we [chref=71]think[/chref] life is. And our [chref=19]desires[/chref], both of the past and for the future, play the major role in this. 'Now' is just a point of passage between those two illusions. The [chref=72]awe[/chref] the other animals feel always 'now', we feel only when we are yanked out of our mind's dream. By not living 'now', but in the past and future, we fail to [chref=33]live out [our] days[/chref]. We want more, set too much store, and thus (ironically) move into the realm of death.
Christ's comment succinctly expresses the Taoist and Buddhist point of view on who excels in safeguarding his own life: "Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it". Was Christ perhaps a little too succinct? Many hold that the "preserving" lies in some future Heaven. Here, the Taoist parts company - 'now' is Heaven. By clinging on, we loose 'now', not later. Thus, we can only truly have what we give up. For him there is no realm of death, for he does not set too much store by life.
Comments
But I alone am aimless and depressed.
I am different.
I am nourished by the great mother.
I recently became very depressed and left off on my meditation. I was reaching such a point of emptiness that I felt as though I was getting nowhere. Little did I know that I was on the verge of growth in my spiritual path. But I foolishly left off. Now I can bravely return. This verse now has new meaning for me.
comments?
2) Great! I know just how you feel. This view sums up our situation nicely: [chref=65]But when things turn back it turns back with them. Only then is complete conformity realized.[/chref] Simply conforming to how 'it' is now, is by far the most [chref=70]easy to put into practice[/chref].
To me this feels a bit like floating down a river. The currents carry me,... I follow. I'm not choosing the rate of flow, the eddies, right or left bank. I'm desire to be One with the river of life. The desire for something otherwise brings consternation. Thus, [chref=64]the sage desires not to desire, and does not value goods which are hard to come by.[/chref] Goods being something other than where 'my river' is flowing now. The rest of Chapter 64, e.g., 'a tree that can fill the span of a man's arms grows from a downy tip' and so on, suggest the pace of Nature's way.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we 'should' do this or that. I just find it helps knowing Nature's game rules (whether I like 'em or not!) So here, for example, [chref=36] if you would have a thing laid aside, you must first set it up.[/chref] We rarely like the setting up side of that coin, but, after all, [chref=5]heaven and earth are ruthless[/chref]. So, why fight 'it'? Alas, we are driven too, aren't we? :roll:
I had to read your comments in part two over and over again in order to understand all you were saying. This sheds light upon chapter 64 and reveals an added dimension to the text.
This weekend I am excited to continue my meditation in this area of being misunderstood and accepting the way of nature. The time of nature can be both fast and slow. Like this spring I am watching the plants in our garden. It is slow in coming and then suddenly so many things begin to take place.
Next month I plan to attend a local Taoist group and learn about how they carry out their meetings. Soon I may hang a sign outside my house like you did. Like my garden, things take time but gradually begin to take shape.
=Tom
One thing about us folks who 'love' the Tao Te Ching, we share one mind... in a way. In this way, I feel very connected to folks long dead and gone, and to those yet born who will meet with 'us' in the teaching that uses words to point to [chref=2]the teaching that uses no words[/chref].
2) Tell us how that unfolds. And on finding a local Taoist group in the first place; I'm at once impressed and bewildered. :?
3) Yes! And don't worry, you won't be inundated with Taoist. Of course, keep us posted on how that unfolds as well.
Correlating it: fold = failure = the end of the line.
When I started our Taoist meetings (about 25 years ago now) I thought at the time that if we remained true to the Tao Te Ching, i.e., the spirit of the 'name that cannot be named', we were sure to 'fail' in the end. In other words, not succeed by the usual 'more is better' instinctive outlook. In Taoism failure is success. How fitting, considering that [chref=40]turning back is how the way moves; weakness is the means the way employs.[/chref] Don't we just love it?
It is hard to accept that if I want to move within Tao, which I cannot not help but do anyway, I will do well to accept it's way.
I was recently told that if I really want to help others I need to do nothing. What do you think of this statement? I am interested in your take on this.
I feel that the TTC speaks of acting through non-action. Leading others back to Tao. Thus we do help others but we do not do it as others would do. I see it as nudging. Tao does as it pleases, it sees all people as straw dogs. The sage is also described as doing the same. Yet he leads others. Comments?
(1) Our wanting (desire, need) to help others is driven by our social instinct. What we think is 'helpful' is usually a projection of our own needs and fears, and so often does not truly help others, especially in the long term. Starting out by "doing nothing" helps us 'do' our [chref=16] utmost to attain emptiness[/chref]. As we attain that, we are more apt to [chref=16] act from knowledge of the constant[/chref]. In short, we need to first plumb [chref=19]self[/chref] honesty until our [chref=16] action will lead to impartiality[/chref].
(2) There is no "back to Tao". [chref=40]Turning back is how the way moves[/chref], and if we want to feel [chref=39]One[/chref] with that, we [chref=65]model[/chref] how 'it' [chref=5]works[/chref]. Thus, [chref=66] desiring to lead the people, one must, in one's person, follow behind them[/chref]. Not only in one's person, but in one's mind. [chref=21]Follow[/chref] is key. Important to me is the view that [chref=49]the sage has no mind of his own. He takes as his own the mind of the people.[/chref] Not only will those we help [chref=17] say, 'It happened to us naturally'[/chref], we will also know 'it' happened to us naturally. Knowing that [chref=64] whoever does anything to it will ruin it; whoever lays hold of it will lose it[/chref] helps us just do the one thing that is within our 'power' - be true to ourselves, even is this feels like a [chref=64]a journey of a thousand miles[/chref]. There is no short cut!
(3) [chref=57]I take no action and the people are transformed of themselves;
I prefer stillness and the people are rectified of themselves;
I am not meddlesome and the people prosper of themselves;
I am free from desire and the people of themselves become simple like the uncarved block. [/chref]
My word, I really plagiarized the 'good book' this time!
this is my first post on to this board. forgive me for intruding, but i feel compeled to post a reply.
i liken the ability of helping others to the bible parable of fishing. you can help others with simple needs like food and a shoulder of support, but the unltimate help is to show them the nature of the tao. once exposed to the way, they can start helping themselves. because the ability to help oneself is always there, just not evident to those unable or unwilling to notice.
-yakrider.k
Sorry. :oops:
thank you for thinking enough to reply.
-yr.k
[chref=38]Hence when the way was lost there was virtue; when virtue was lost there was
benevolence; when benevolence was lost there was rectitude; when rectitude was
lost there were the rites.[/chref]
So, as it turns out, we can often be of greater help when we refrain from 'helping'. Such is life in the sand box.
In the light of what everyone wrote I espy these verses:
Understanding and being open to all things,
Are you able to do nothing? -TTC10
Therefore the sage takes care of all men
And abandons no one.
He takes care of all things
And abandons nothing. -TTC27
Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it?
I do not believe it can be done. -TTC29
Whenever you advise a ruler in the way of Tao,
Counsel him not to use force to conquer the universe. -TTC30
Going forward seems like retreat; -TTC41
The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering. -TTC48
I have three treasues which I hold and keep.
The first is mercy; the second is economy;
The third is daring not to be ahead of others.
From mercy comes courage; from economy comes generosity;
From humility comes leadership.
Nowadays men shun mercy, but try to be brave;
They abandon economy, but try to be generous;
They do not believe in humility, but always try to be first.
This is certain death. -TTC67 (WOW!)